Ambassador Series 1

[murdo]

Hello all from Australia. I am looking for a photo and information about the '46 to '48 Series 1 Ambassador two stroke. I have been led to belive that they were fitted with Webb pressed metal girder forks, and used a twin down tube rigid frame. Can anybody show or point me in the right direction of a decent photo.

Many thanks, Steve.

[Bomber]

Should have a Villiers 5E engine

[R]

Front forks of that description were quite common on Villiers powered beasties from that era, although the twin downtube frame wouldn't have been.

What size was the Series 1 - this is the Series 3, from Sheldons.
http://cybermotorcycle.com/gallery/ambassador/images/Ambassador_1949_AU.jpg

Searching through old newspaper adverts is now possible online these days.
Try googling for your local (major) paper ?

Got a pic of the bike in question ?

Sounds like this could be useful ?
http://www.realclassic.co.uk/books/guide_to_ambassador_motorcycles.html

[murdo]

The series 1 used a 197cc Villers 5E. I am not sure the parts I have are from an Ambassador as the forks are straight leg and the twin front down tubes. The Carlton, James and Zundapp also had this style of pressed metal forks and similar wheels to mine, but with single down tube frame. I wanted to get a photo to be sure it either was or wasn't an Ambassador Series 1. If I can eliminate the series 1, then it may be something put together in Australia of imported components. It is not a Waratah, ACME or Norman.

[33d6]

The Series I was 1947 only. It had a single down tube frame and was not of the cradle type but instead had an open bottom section with the engine supported on engine plates.
The Series II was 1948 and also powered by the 5E. It had a different single down tube cradle type frame but posssibly with a detachable lower frame section.
Then of course we get the Series III for 1949 & 50 with a proper single down tube cradle frame and the 6E engine.
Ambassador never used a twin down tube frame. To answer your query I've just ploughed through "A Guide to Ambassador Motor Cycles" by Michael Easton and Fred Hibbert which lists(with pictures) every model of Ambassador made. Sorry, no twin down tubes.
Many makes of British lightweight used Webb pressed steel girder forks, from the early 30's through to the early 50's but offhand I can't think of anyone using a twin down tube frame. Can we have a photo?
Cheers,

[wetdog]

some two stoke experts here , i have a James which was one of the last assembled by Bob Joiner (it has a blue or red seat will look again ) does anyone know how many of these he made ?

[murdo]

Thank you for the information. After reading Cardan's post about the Norman Rambler I think mine might be a parts special as it has no frame numbers. I do not have the engine so cannot be traced through that way. I just could not see these bits crushed and may not be able to get an original bike back out of it, but the detective work is still entertaining. Will be going back to the farm this week to get some photos. 

[murdo]

Have some photos of the pieces that I have saved. I may not be able to do anything with them but I would still like to know what they were from. The frame does have a number I found under a 1/2 lb of brass on a dodgy repair. No is 10094. No other marks can be found. There is some black paint of the fork near the damper adjuster. The carb I found with it is brass with a long curved intake as per Villiers.

 

[wink]

I canīt separate the scans but this was me on the remains of a 125 Ambassador in 1957, single downtube with inch by 1/4 strip from top to bottom where it had broken and the rear frame modified to give more ground clearance, probably MP forks,
The Honda 305 was an early cafe racer.

[R]

Those tank mounts and forks and rear wheel on your remains mark it as a 1930s Royal Enfield.
Anywhere from 1932 through to 1938, from 125cc through to 1140cc. (!).

The size of rear brake drum and sprocket tooth count may narrow it down a bit more.
Looks small, rather than big cc... ?

[murdo]

Thank R. The rear sprocket is 40 teeth of 5/8" pitch with a depressed centre held on by 3 bolts. Rear drum is 6 1/2" diameter, 36 spokes and rim was originaly chromed around edges. The frame is about the size of my SL125 Honda, so I am guessing small two stroke.

[cardan]

An early two stroke with a twin down tube frame is a pretty unusual thing, so one of the 225cc Royal Enfields of the 1930s is a pretty good bet. http://cybermotorcycle.com/gallery/royal_enfield_1936/Royal_Enfield_1936_06.htm

One of the members of the Veteran and Vintage MCC of South Australia has a lovely one that has been in his family since new http://vvmccsa.org.au/gallery/html/1937re.html , but yours looks a little worse for wear. Realistically it's not a viable restoration project, but an interesting relic none the less.

Leon

[murdo]

Thank you Cardan, I think that must be it (or of the same family). I never had visions of ever restoring it back to original (not enough of it) but wanted to know what it was and what it used to look like.

[R]

The 225cc 2stroke is listed as having 5" rear brake until 1937 and 1938, and single tube frame for 1939.
So if it was a 2stroke it can only be 1937 or 1938.
Other smaller 4 strokes also had similar features, in 1937 - the Model T 148cc

http://s23.postimg.org/75ux6sf4r/RE_frames.jpg

There are some other years and possibilities, especially if the front brake is bigger than 5".
But without more bits, tricky to identify...
Info from Gordon Mays book on Enfields.

[murdo]

Rear brake drum is 6 1/2", front 5". Both rims 19" with 36 spokes and were originaly chromed. The carb I found with it looks the same as the model A 225cc two stroke that Cardan posted of the bike in South Australia. Other bits I can see on picture also match up. I had a feeling it was a 30's bike. The frame number 10094 mean anything to anybody?