Help wanted: finding the perfect bike for me

[Sick]

Hello,

My name is Martin, I’m 32 and have more or less no experience with vintage motorcycles. I don’t even have a drivers license for motorcycles. Back in the days I decided, that I’d most likely kill myself if I ride a motorcycle. Now I’m settled way more and need a good reason for the effort of getting the license- which leads me to british vintage bikes.
I actually don’t like new rides that much- no matter if they come with two or four wheels. I call a ’71 Challenger my own and don’t mind to get my hands dirty and work on the car.
I think this is a good requirement for considering to get me a vintage bike. But enough about me for now- why I’m writing this post is because I’m a bit puzzled about all the bikes available.
My requirements for a vintage are: Rigid frame, 500cc or more, not totally overpriced, should be capable to go 80 mph on the Autobahn.
My problem is, that I didn’t find a lot information about engine specs/top speed/etc. on the net. I know, that these old bikes are not the definition of racers, but being stuck behind a truck on the Autobahn would be annoying.
I’d love to hear a discussion and/or suggestions, which vintage bike could fit my needs the best.
Maybe you guys can help me getting up to Speed…

Cheers,

Martin

[antoni]

With respect Martin, you're asking a lot from your first venture into old bikes. 80 mph is a big ask for an old bike unless you're into exotic stuff. I'm struggling to find a modestly priced 500 that will  keep ahead of the UK 56 mph lorries without the bike having to work too hard. My '350 Matchless can just about do it, I expect the 500 version would happier.

Where are you? It might be relevant to the knowledgeable types on here for spares and back-up info.

I think the bikes are divided into classic, vintage and veteran now. I'll not try to define what they are as I don't know where my tin hat is at the minute. Point is, roughly how old a bike are you looking for?

[Sick]

Thanks for the quick reply. I hope my request was not too rude- at least it was not meant like that.
I was afraid to hear an answer like yours. Around 80mph is maybe more a whish than a must have.
Sorry for not being specific: I’m from Germany and looking for a bike between mid 30s up to the 60s (there were a few models that still came with rigid frame then).
Its not like I did’t do some homework at all. I like the look of the BSA M20 and M21, but learned that they’re heavy and terrible slow.
The Triumph TRW 500 looks like an option, but I have no idea how fast it can go. Same for the Norton model 18…
The Ariel Red Hunter is a beautiful bike in my eyes and pretty fast as well, but availablility seems to be a problem for a rigid frame model with 500cc.
It’s really tough to get an overview…

[antoni]

Clear enough Martin, thanks. I was/am in a similar position to you.

You mention bikes with side-valve engines and those with overhead valves operated by pushrods. Yes the sidevalve types are very slow but I've never had one. I'm told the OHV Norton Model 18 (or the ES2 which is similar) are quite lively machines, and that's what I'm looking to buy too.

I came down from  a 170 bhp bike to 17 bhp one. I enjoy riding it just as much. There's a lot to be said for riding an old slow machine.... it's no use trying to describe it, you just need to do a few miles on one on the right sort of roads, and then you will know how much you like it.

These bikes are available but obviously there are not as many around as the modern bikes. A lot of the bikes available have been assembled from parts just to sell at a good price. I went to see just such a bike recently. It was a solid legal bike with all the necessary documents and so was worth a lot of money, but it was still a wreck. Even though it was exactly what I was looking for I didn't even make an offer on it. It will be right for someone but not for me, or I suspect, for you. Another bike I saw made up from parts was quite respectable and looked to be a good machine but that one wasn't really for me either.

If you are new to these types of bike and you want one that goes well don't go for sidevalve. And look for one that has clearly been driven regularly and recently.

[Sick]

Again, many thanks for the good advice. I think, that a slow machine is pretty much fun to ride in town and on the right streets. I actually don’t even want something too fast.
I checked the Norton Model 18/ES2 and it seems to match what I’m looking for.
And I have to agree with you regarding the motorcycles thrown together from parts. I don’t want to disassemble and restore the bike from scratch- rather looking for something like a rolling restoration. A bike driven on a regular basis is a good way to start…

[wetdog]

Ariel , tele ridged are affordable and some of the best , easy to work on , some none standard triumphs are a good price and do go well but not the TRW front valve .

[R]

With respect Martin, you're asking a lot from your first venture into old bikes. 80 mph is a big ask for an old bike unless you're into exotic stuff. I'm struggling to find a modestly priced 500 that will  keep ahead of the UK 56 mph lorries without the bike having to work too hard. My '350 Matchless can just about do it, I expect the 500 version would happier.

Good answer.
Anthing with a rigid frame that will comfortably do 80+ mph, reliably, you could count on the fingers of one hand ?
And may need a lot of wrenching/rebuilding to keep running at that pace.
Hot-rodded old Indian or Harleys maybe, with some modern parts - or a Brough Superior or Norton International  or prewar Goldie ??  Exotica, at exotica prices most likely.
Let us know if you find anything...

[Bomber]

Cruise at 80.. I doubt it, as regards Nortons, the ES2 and model 18 had a flat out top speed of 84 mph and a 500 Norton Inter again flat out at 86. Without some serious tuning none of the rigid Nortons could possibly cruise at over 70 mph reliably.

HTH.

Frank

[john.k]

Simple ,get yourself a panhead Hydra Glide.No rigid fifties pommy bike will cruise at those speeds,without destroying itself.I include square fours in this.Only a Harley 74 can do this reliably,and knuckleheads are in the BS class pricewise now,so you need a panhead.They can still be bought for reasonable prices.Regards John.

[wetdog]

cheap panhead ? are you in the UK

[rogerwilko]

Norton ES2's were slower than other british singles. My featherbed struggled to reach 78 mph. They were a slug. I loved it but got sick of lack of performance.

[Bomber]

Simple ,get yourself a panhead Hydra Glide.No rigid fifties pommy bike will cruise at those speeds,without destroying itself.I include square fours in this.Only a Harley 74 can do this reliably,and knuckleheads are in the BS class pricewise now,so you need a panhead.They can still be bought for reasonable prices.Regards John.

Brough's would easily and so would Vincents... a Harley would do fine especially if you had a keen interest in tractors...

[antoni]

Brough's would easily and so would Vincents... a Harley would do fine especially if you had a keen interest in tractors...

The bikes Martin mentioned in his second post suggested that he might not have the budget for a Brough.

I don't like it when the dealers ask what my budget is when I say I'm looking for a bike. Wouldn't my answer affect the price of any they might have? I just say "I've an idea what they go for and I'm looking for one in X condition and about X age.

Having said that, Martin, what's your budget?

[john.k]

By definition,Vincents are out(not rigid),an ohv BS will cost five to six figures,(some not rigid either),all that  could be considered is a rigid Thunderbird,or a sq4.Now as the gent is a newby,classic wise,I assume he wont want to spend forty years searching for parts on fleabay.Buy a rigid pan in the US,if necessary,and ship it back.He will be able to buy any part of any year pan(or any other HD)from numerous suppliers in the states.He can even buy a replica,new made for less than $20000.(Depending on the law where he lives,he may have to ride it on trade plates.).How many pricey Broughs,Internationals,Sq4s,Gold Stars and Vincents are horrible bodges, very pretty,but R/S mechanically.Ive seen a few,that have made the new owners cry.So there you have it.I have only fifty years experience,so I don't know as much as most young blokes and I should probably keep quiet.Regards John.

[Sick]

Wow… great feedback! I’m still trying to figure out what is the best split between price/performance/style.
I’m really into rigid bikes with girder forks- what doesn’t go that well with performance. When I mentioned the 80 mph were not meant to be a cruising speed but a top speed.
The NortonES2, Model 18 and Ariel Sq4 seems to be  good options then.
I limited my budget to around 8k€…