Terrot MT 1, 100cc 2 stroke: non-starter!

[Jean-luc]

Oh come on,

4 French bikes there, no bits,

were you really surprised?

French stuff like yours is a very niche interest,as you say the frogs don't like them either, a hint perhaps?

Mind you it might be because you are a Brit, they  mostly dislike us and right now are having a sulk.

Maybe my English is not good enough and I misunderstood something .....

If you take time to have a real look on "Frog's forum", you will see that 100 and 125 cc represent more than 50% of the subjects.

Now If you give up with a simple 2 strokes engine, what should I've done when spending 3 years on my 500 JAP from 1930.
Do you think it has been easy to find parts ?
I had to search all over the world !
Help from English clubs or manufacturers ... ? In your dreams!

I bought the piston almost the price of your 100cc .....
And If you imagine that it started at the first time, I can tell you the engine compression is not the same than yours !

I must be completely mad because now it's almost finished, I've found a 500 Blackburne from 1929 .... and, for sure, it will be worse.

Ok your motorcycle is a Terrot, and what ?? a 2 strokes engine works the same way independently of the manufacturer.

Regarding the carb, plenty people in France replaces them by Dellorto.
Honestly I wouldn't do it but why not, if it's the way to have it working ?

But please, forget your Villier ou Chinese scrap.

Move your ass, restart from the beginning, check everything and finish it properly !!
And If I have to find you a $%^&&ing carburetor, I will do it.

PS : I didn't take time to read this subject from the beginning but I'm going to do it.
Because, when I read Mini-me "mechanical literature" the level seems not to be very high ... which is logic compare to the pseudo.

[mini-me]

Well then, Jean -Luc find the man a fekking carb, because he is getting  fek all help from your side so far.

 I also found  a  distinct lack of help as a member of Motobecane club de france, [I had 3 Z series,]  just getting an answer even when I wrote in french was a problem.
Likewise, getting a reply to an advert, was negative. Considering the help I had given to French owners of british bikes over the years the lack of reciprocal good will was outstanding.

moi-même je ne visite plus l'hexagone.

A bientot.


PS there are 23 pages of this man's struggle with this bike, why did you not step in earlier with an offer of help or advice? As for the  comments about your JAP/Blackburne parts it is a common misconception that the UK is awash with parts for older bikes, it not, nor are they cheap for anyone.

Over the years I have shipped bike parts to France Spain Italy Germany and other places, none of them paid any more than the same price I charged here.

[Jean-luc]

Ok everything is said ?
Sorry for the 23 pages before but I had a look and found really interesting informations !

Like some guys in the discussion, I would be surprised that the problem comes from the carb, but anyway.

It was possible to have these motorcycle with an Amac 903/165 or a Gurtner R17.
Gurtner are more easy to find.
But, for information, it's possible to find parts, if needed, for Amac : http://www.carburologue82.fr/64-t-903913923933943-r1-r2

On another hand, Graham, have you tried contacting people who restored the same motorcycle to get proper information ?
(timing adjustement, type of seals, ....)
http://www.breizhmotoancienne.com/2015/11/restauration-motorette-terrot-100-de1951.html for example.

One guy knowing perfectly this kind of motorcycle : Charlie ( charlie.amk(at)gmail.com )
He did already several of them.

[Rex]

I have to say that when I had my pre-war Monet-Goyon getting anyone to answer simple questions on the M-G forum was hard work. It was almost as if the French resented a foreigner having a part of their motorcycling heritage.
Not a problem now though, as it's long-since returned home, but it was a charming bike.

[Jean-luc]

Don't forget that a lot of people in France are not speaking English especially "old" ones .....
Most of the guys knowing and interested in these pieces of scrap (like my wife uses to say) are not young fellows.

On top of that, most of the time, people not speaking French are using google translate, and when talking about technical things, translation is shit !!!
Very often, impossible to understand.

After, yes, like everywhere, you will find good and stupid people ........
Some of the forums have "bad" reputation, even in France.
That's why on my forum (originally Terrot) I've created an "other brand" section.

And when discussing in English or Spanish, I'm trying to do my best .......




 

[mini-me]

As a fan of french pre war motorcycles,  I can appreciate the  advanced engineering ideas they had, even if they were not  totally successful in practice .
 In France I was several times told my technical French was better than my everyday French. I subscribed for over 10 yrs to nearly all the French bike magazines.

I took the trouble to learn, however, it was always something of a joke in French cours du soir here,that the best way to ascertain if a french person spoke english was to ask a question in your worst French where you would almost inevitably get a response in very good English, in order to show the superiority of French education [can't argue with that]. I have several  found this to be the case. A useful ruse at times.

I did tell this fellow here that it would have been cheaper and easier to take the bike back to France and find someone there to fix it.

The fact is French bikes apart from Velosolex and Mobylette  were never imported here, despite that there are always some first timers asking for spares and manuals in english . You  just cannot help some folk.

[Jean-luc]

I forgot telling you ...

If you are searching for parts for 1940/50's Terrot, contact Kristoffer : terrotspareparts (at) outlook.com
He's living in Sweden but found an old stock in Norway.
He has hundreds of parts !!!!!
He's sorted them by original part numbers (http://terrot.club.pyreneen.free.fr/basse_resol/pieces-detachees/100/mt1/htm-0001.htm)

[mini-me]

1930s Terrots were very good bikes, robust and good looking, I had an HST once,years ago.

[Jean-luc]

Another address where to find 100 and 125cc Terrot parts :  patrice.gerard199 (at) orange.fr

Even if he's selling parts for many years already, he's still having a lot !!!

[Terrotmt1]

Someone else told me this was still going on..

I have asked Kristoff several times for parts he may have, always helpful, but he does not have a carb, sold the last one to a Brit!
I will email Charlie and see if he can understand me firstly, and if so, if he can help.

I have spent even more hours on this engine.

The engine now fires quite reliably. This is with the original AMAC carb, a rebuilt magneto ignition coil from France and a lot of luck.

It will even run for about a minute and get hot until it simply dies.
Checking the plug and it has ranged from VERY oily-wet to wet, and the crank case has a good level of mixture in it too..
In this state it runs 'heavy' and will not respond to open/closing the throttle.

To get to this level I have endlessly set/reset the needle and float levels, the timing is 5mm BTDC.

Today I managed to get the plug to be black but dry for the very first time ever, and no residue in the case. The case has a drain which I think Mini Me advised to add from his Bantam days.

I have capped the top of the jet tube which was worn oval and re-drilled the hole that the needle passes through. I started with 2mm dia and it is now closer to 3mm.
The needle is 2.4mm Dia.
The float is 2 clicks up in the 6 available from lowest level. The fuel puddle is 'just' at the top of the carb body base and will 'just' dribble from the open port by the filter.
Moving the float by a click seems to do little.

Thus, still so close but so far.
Cannot yet understand why the engine will not respond to the up/down of the carb piston/needle (ie the twist grip action of tick over to full throttle).

I need to move the needle position in finer steps to try to get the right mixture. Don't know what else to try.

Magneto France say 5mm BTDC and I've tried the engine at anything from 0 mm  (TDC) to 6mm BTDC and it seems to make no difference.

Clutching at anything else, but I feel the primary compression is weakened, but the east starting would not happen if the primary comp was too weak?

I will now go back to the

[chaterlea25]

Hi'
I still believe the fuel level is too high, maybe 2mm below venturi would be nearer the ideal
Does the carb have a pilot circuit? I cannot remember and I.m not going to re read all the pages 
In more modern carbs the needle virtually closes off the fuel at low throttle positions and the mixture is provided by the pilot circuit,

I started with 2mm dia and it is now closer to 3mm.
The needle is 2.4mm Dia.

If that was the case the throttle slide and needle would not close to the bottom
If the thickest part of the needle is 2.4mm I would guess the needle jet should be about 2.5mm

John

[Terrotmt1]

Thank you John for your reply.

I have been through a lot of needles from other carbs, and one was smaller than the 2mm dill I had so started there.

The jet is now about 2.8mm dia, hard to measure, and has been needle-filed-out to that size.
Currently have the original needle in @ 2.58mm so the clearance is far more than 0.1mm by diameter.

Hard to change these jet diameters with what I have to hand.
I will try setting the float to such a 'depth' but I think the clip will not be in one of the float needle groves, but can cut a new grove.
Here is a picture of the carb; there is no pilot jet. The engine cuts when the throttle is fully closed off.

[Terrotmt1]

Well, tried the float level again in all the designed position and 2 new groves.
No improvement, if anything, worse starting.

Have contacted the carb spares place suggested by Jean.
They show a main jet and jet tube for the AMAC 903-165 but no needle.
Have asked them if they have a needle, jet tube and jet.

Hope they have all 3 parts. Quite cheap if they have.

[mini-me]

[Terrotmt1]

Ha!