Barr and Stroud mystery bike

[JFerg]

Who can help identify this machine?  Not much is known; it's a Czech registration, a photo taken in Czech.  Electric lighting and the overall style suggest late twenties or early thirties, but the 500cc Barr and Stroud sleeve valve engine is from 1924.  There is a name on the tank, just not enough that I can read.

[R]

Very stylish looking bike - that front guard is quite distinctive on it own.
Quite a lot of brakes for 1924 too, although could be from a later year, and earlier engine.

Didn't you have the production records for B&S, or was that just part of them ?

[JFerg]

I have the sales records for B&S, and from that have extracted a fairly complete record of engine production.  It's not 100%, however.

Two 500cc engines were sent to Prague.  The photo is of a Czech bike, taken in Czech, so might be the destiny of one engine.....

[sprocket-in-my-socket]

Frame and overall style looks like a OEC of about 1926 to me.

Regards,
Helmut

[chaterlea25]

Hi Helmut and All,
I thought OEC at first look, front lower of the frame and centre stand being similar
BUT
The the drive chain is not on the "correct" side for a British bike they are almost always on the left side

??
John

[mini-me]

If only that photo was a bit clearer, the name on the tank is nearly readable till the pixels lose it.

Obviously a pillion rider in those shoes!

[JFerg]

The gearbox is a crossover type; the input is on the left, output on the right, yet it has a kickstart so is obviously a purpose made motorcycle gearbox.  A Hurth?

The frame has hints of Praga and ABC about it, but only hints, and the centre stand is really unusual for that era.

Looks like an Enfield rear sprocket, hence an Enfield wheel in "backwards".

Headlight arrangement and mounting is quite French of the era.

[mini-me]

Of course there is no obligation for a Czech registered bike to have been made in Czechoslovakia?

[cardan]

It might have two-times the number of regulation wheels, but have you got this one on your list JFerg? I suppose we could call it the Davies Cycle Car, and the article comes from the Melbourne Herald, in August 1928. I suppose the Barr and Stroud motor would have been one of the "loose" motors, rather than from a dismantled bike?

[Edit: Just realised there's only wheel at the back, so change "two-times" to "one-and-a-half-times"! Edit the edit: ah, there are 4 wheels if you look at the whole photo!!]

Cheers

Leon

[33d6]

Most Barr & Stroud engines came 'loose' to Australia Leon. Only a few appeared here already in a bike. I suspect JFerg could pretty well nail down this one as they say it's the 1000cc vee twin.

Mont Albert is very much my neighbourhood. I'll have to see if I can find out more about J J Davies from the local hysterical society.

Where did you get the photo? I presume you found it through Trove? The exact date and page number would be useful. I can then tackle the State Library direct for a decent quality copy.The Library is so understaffed for best results you need to hold them by the hand all the way through. They're willing but drowning.

Cheers,

[cardan]

Hi 33d6,

Oh it's a cute thing! I do like a good cycle car.

JFerg and I recently discovered that quite a number of "Coventry B&S" motorcycles came in to Western Australia, complete with B&S engines, so in Australia we had both B&S bikes and loose engines.

I have method in my file names: yyyy-mm-dd-papername, so in this case 1928-08-20-herald-melbourne.jpg translates to the Herald, 20 August 1928. I don't usually use page numbers - I've found in the past that the Adelaide newspapers had several editions per day, and sometimes articles were moved.

Getting better photos is tough. In this case the Trove scan is pretty good, and a scan from the original newspaper wouldn't be too much better. At the State Library of South Australia, processing for Trove involved separating pages, and the papers were then properly packaged and put into "deep storage". I think I paid $60 to get a paper out last time I wanted a photo, but in that case the Trove scan was total rubbish. The staff at the library were amazed that I had been able to convince the powers that be to get the relevant paper out at all, and it was only because I convinced them that I was doing serious research, and the Trove scan was not fit for purpose.

Since the Herald is still around, I wonder if they still have an archive of photos that goes back to 1928? Now that would be interesting.

Cheers

Leon

[cardan]

Davies lived at 7 Zetland Road, Mont Albert. Maybe you can see if he's home? If not, check the crumbling shed at the bottom of the garden...

[33d6]

The original 7 Zetland Rd house is long gone unfortunately. For a moment I was hoping it could be our house as I’ve been told our garage housed a Minerva during WWll and as a boy a local VVMCC member remembered the owner carefully cranking it over to keep the sleeves free. It wasn’t much of a leap to hope he was the local sleeve valve nut and he started out building his own cycle car. No such luck though.
I have found out the Davies were the local estate agents. I’ll keep digging.
Cheers,

[cardan]

What a pity that thought didn't stand up to scrutiny - it would have been a classic story.

On the sleeve-valve-motors-in-Melbourne theme: If a Barr and Stroud and Minerva - with full length sleeves controlling the ports - was called a sleeve valve, what was the Peugeot effort - with  very short sleeve - called?

"Cuff valve"! The late Jack Nelson owned one, as a young man in Melbourne just after the war. Nice car.

Cheers

Leon

[john.k]

Ive heard said that B&S motors were very difficult to get the port timing right,and often refused to run after repair...years ago I had a Willys Knight 66 of 1930 vintage,because it had but one timing shaft,things were easy-ish.I "found" the car because I worked at Repco,and the owner had sent the motor in from the bush for overhaul,and was quoted a massive sum.......a year later the motor was still sitting in the shop,and so I found the owner and bought the car......I managed to get the reco done in stages for free....some was pretty out of the ordinary,the steel sleeves had to be flame sprayed with babbit,and ground to size....In those days Repco regularly remetalled vintage car (and diesel) big ends.....After the reco,the motor ran real well and was completely silent,but used bulk oil....like 5 gallons in a 200 mile rally.....It took a lot of miles for the motor to settle down.....I had been warned about this by the old timers at Repco.