Author Topic: Villiers 1E super sport  (Read 618 times)

Offline 22geoff22

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Villiers 1E super sport
« on: September 08, 2022, 10:31:01 AM »
Hi. Just acquired a very rusted 196 super sport and started stripping it down. Engine Number is 1E 4092
So far itís come apart ok and all looks very good, although a little wet and corroded inside but ok. The piston is an ally piston and the conrod is marked BR TT cast into it, PAT 257137-25, is this conrod standard for the Super Sport.


Offline cardan

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Re: Villiers 1E super sport
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2022, 12:04:40 PM »
Hi Geoff,
I'll leave our expert colleague 33d6 to provide more info, but while we wait it might be interesting to know that the patent is a Villiers one for a roller bearing with smaller, low-friction (bronze?), rollers held in a cage between the main rollers. I wonder does your engine still have its original big-end bearing?
Cheers
Leon

Offline 22geoff22

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Re: Villiers 1E super sport
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2022, 05:55:34 PM »
Thanks Leon. Canít see yet as havenít stripped the big end yet but that is very interesting. Also anyone know how I remove the engine sprocket, itís absolutely solid. Any tips would be appreciated.

Offline cardan

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Re: Villiers 1E super sport
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2022, 12:35:00 AM »
Presumably it's just on a taper, so heat + puller + tap from hammer while it's under tension.

Leon

Offline john.k

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Re: Villiers 1E super sport
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2022, 04:06:02 AM »
A keyed taper can be removed by placing a heavy dolly (15lb) against one side of the taper,and striking the other side a sharp blow with a 2lb-3lb hammer

Offline 33d6

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Re: Villiers 1E super sport
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2022, 08:47:19 AM »
Oh goodie, a nice historical question.
Firstly, there is no such animal as a 1E 196 Super Sport engine. You have a bitza. DO NOT WORRY. This is a GOOD THING. You have a combination of the best parts of both which was the standard answer to making a reliable 196cc Super Sport. These engines share many parts as you will find out.
The 1E was the workhorse having a cast iron piston with fixed head and barrel. The Super Sport had an alloy piston of identical dimensions plus a removable alloy head with shaped combustion chamber. Altogether a much livelier and perkier engine with much reduced vibration.
The bottom of the range 1E used petroil lubrication, there was also a Villiers Auto lube version. The Super Sport came in Auto Lube only. Petroil is owner tolerant, the Auto Lube system is not. It demands a certain amount of skill and knowledge from the owner for long term reliability, From the survival rate of Villiers engines with operating Autolube systems you can see that sort of owner was uncommon. The answer was a Super Sport top half built up on a 1E petroil lubricated bottom half. This is what you have. It is a good combination.
Your conrod is the standard part for the 1E, 2E and both the 172cc and 196cc Super Sport engines. Alpha Bearings will have an off the shelf big end for you. From memory the later 6E conrod is interchangeable but I wouldn't trust my memory without measuring first.
The crankshaft has a straight 1-10 taper. No key is fitted. Standard removal procedures are all that is needed. Put a protective nut on the crankshaft thread first. Good crankshaft halves with good threads are hard to find.
Do you have a complete engine? This includes the flywheel magneto plus inlet manifold and Villiers own carburettor. The standard factory set up gives lovely results with little effort.
Finally, how many teeth on the engine sprocket? Villiers provided a range of sprockets from 14-24 teeth. What is fitted to yours?
Looking forward to an interesting answer.

Offline 22geoff22

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Re: Villiers 1E super sport
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2022, 12:55:02 PM »
Thanks 33d6 for the information. Yes I have a marked ďSuper SportĒ  barrel and ally head and 61mm  ally piston, the crank cases are marked 880. Also I have the complete Auto lube tank and pipes. I currently run a 1924 Levis popular with drip control oiling so I am used to the delicate balance of oiling.
I think the big end will need replacing, but Villiers are not a million miles from me so I can call in and discuss with them. Thanks for the engine sprocket info, didnít know whether it was keyed, so I must get a bit more aggressive and a bit of heat. The sprocket is a 16T.
P.S. sprocket now removed👍

I have a complete engine with flywheel mag, villiers carb and inlet manifold. Only missing the down pipes.

I have been informed by the person who recently brought it back from the Isle Of Man that it was previously owned by an ex racer living on the Island, who later took it out of his race bike to make a wood saw to cut up logs for his fire and then later for many years it sat in his shed collecting dirt etc. my task now is to get this running then find a suitable frame.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2022, 04:54:22 PM by 22geoff22 »

Offline Vreagh

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Re: Villiers 1E super sport
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2022, 09:35:32 PM »
 How did the auto lube oil get into the engine? I haven't come across any open orifice on my super sport, am I missing something? Seems to be running fine (if a little smoky) on 16 to 1 petroil.

Offline 33d6

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Re: Villiers 1E super sport
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2022, 08:30:03 AM »
The trickiness with the Villiers Auto Lube sysystem does not lie in how to operate it but with its method of construction. Villiers ensured leakproof oil pipe joints by using compression olives at each pipe connection. They refer to these in their Spare List as 'solderless nipples". These work very well but are intended to be a more or less permanent fitting. As they are a crushable device they quickly lose their ability to seal if re-used a few times. They are designed to be fitted and then left alone, not fiddled with.
Unfortunately in pre two-stroke oil days decoking was a fairly regular procedure which usually involved dismantling and re erecting the oil pipes, breaking the crushable olive unions each time.  If the owner didn't understand the subtleties of using these compression olives and the necessity to replace them and the actual pipe involved they would invariably fail in time and the system lose pressure. No pressure equals no oil equals no engine.
These compression olives also crush down on the oil pipe itself so in time not only the olive but the whole pipe needs replacing if the joints are to be effective. I've played with the remains of enough Auto Lube systems to see that few owners ever did this. Usually the pipes are so crushed the olives are immoveable. No wonder they leaked.
Auto Lube is a system that can work quite well if you understand the requirements but is untrustworthy if you don't. Personally I think it places too much faith in the owners skills. Petroil still requires owner input but is a lot more tolerant.

And Vreagh, the Auto Lube engine inlet pipe is the one on the cylinder betweeen the exhaust ports. It is in the same place whether for 1E, 2E, Sport, Super Sport TT or 196cc Super Sport.