Unknown Motorcycle Factory

[VintageBike]

This is a fantastic picture of an unidentified motorcycle works.  Can anyone identify it for me?

http://www.vintagebike.co.uk/Bike%20Directories/Period%20Pictures/pages/Bike-Builders.htm

Cheers

Nigel

[Blackbird]

Also like to know the name of the bikes if anybody knows, I think the picture was taken in the late 20's if anyone could help would be grateful.
  

[VintageBike]

Quoting 33d6

"Hi Nigel,
Yes, I've looked at the factory photo and can't place the make.  
I'd say from the style of the bike and that they all appear to be fitted with the CS Sturmey Archer gearbox that it is immediately post WWI. From the size of the flywheel I'd guess it is a Blackburne engine and the front forks are Brampton Bi-Flex.
In other words a  bike assembled from bought in components as was common in those days but who knows what name it was sold under. I suppose I could plow through my copy of "The Motor Cycle Index 1913-1924" and hazard a guess but I'd prefer someone who knows to tell us.
Cheers, Bob"

[dunboyneroadracing]

not sure why but the name coventry as the make seems to spring to mind , a wild guess realy but might inspire someone who knows better.

[VintageBike]

I've added some more pictures to the page now.  THey show the same gent this time riding his bike.  Is this the same make as those he worwked with?  There's now also a shot on one of the cars in the works too.  Any guesses??

Nigel.

[L.A.B.]

The motorcycle(s?) appear/s to have Portsmouth (TP) registration marks, which could provide a clue?
Would there be any connection between John Galloway's grandfather and Portsmouth at all?
Does anyone know of a car/motorcycle factory in the Portsmouth area?

The registration number of the bike in the last photo would seem to be different to the bike shown in the previous two photos (TP 3356) although I must admit I cannot tell exactly what that number is as the image is rather low quality, -could it possibly be TP 3865 or 3965? Maybe that number is a lot clearer on the original photograph?

The bike bike in the last photo also looks to be a slightly different (later?) model, having a different silencer, electric lighting, drum front brake, mudguard etc., the TP3356 bike would appear to be fitted with acetylene lighting, dummy rim front brake etc..      

Although the biggest clue could possibly be the emblems on these bikes (and badge on the car?), the bike in the foreground of the first photo has one that can just be seen and also on TP3356.
Would there be any chance of showing a better quality scanned (and cropped) image of those emblem areas at 300-600 dpi?

[Blackbird]

  Hi Guys

Thanks for all the interest in the factory my Grandfather worked at, but may be of help in knowing he was born In Bradford. By the look of the photo I'd say he was in his very early 20's then. He later moved to Portsmouth in the late 20's hench the TP registration on the two later bikes. Ive since been told that TP3356 is a 1921 41/2 500cc BSA and TP 3866 is a 1925 41/2 BSA.

Not sure if the cars were in the factory for repair but would doubt it as also have photo's rear the rear machine tooling shop where it looks like some parts were made on a large scale.
I would take a guess in saying the factory was about 1910ish but only a guess.
Would still like to know the name on these bikes as proving to be a bit of a mystery.
I will try to scan in the car and bike logo's this weekend and post if they come out.
Thanks again guys for all your help.
John  

[geoffus]

It certainly is a mystery what the machines are.  The only name I can come up with is Premier, who also made light cars and would appear to be about the same era.  However the car in the second photograph would not appear to be a light car, although in the first photograph there does appear to be a light car in the background.
The two photographs of the combination, the best I can make out the logo on the tank seems to start with an M.  Maybe Montgomery or Martinside.  I'll watch for more correspondence with anticipation.
Regards, Geoff

[Blackbird]

  Hi Geoff

Thanks for looking mate,  I'm a bit of a novice on vintage bikes, but I can see that the Premier is similar but did they have the large fly wheel, all the pictures I've found seem to have a small front drive cog.

Shame I never asked the question many years ago when he was still alive, as he was a real interesting guy, but lets hope we get ther soon.

John

[33d6]

Had a look at the extra photos and can identify the car as a Crossley. Can't tell exactly what model but the make was well respected and noted for being used as a staff car by the Royal Flying Corp during WW1.
They were considered rather sporting in their day but fizzled out in the late 20's, early 30's. Made commercial vehicles also.
Cheers, Bob

[L.A.B.]

Had a look at the extra photos and can identify the car as a Crossley. Can't tell exactly what model but the make was well respected and noted for being used as a staff car by the Royal Flying Corp during WW1.

Yes you're right, the car does indeed seem to be a Crossley.
http://www.crossley-motors.org.uk/Gallery/today19_6.html

Crossleys were apparently made in Manchester.
http://www.crossley-motors.org.uk/history/origins.html

Although there doesn't (as yet) appear to be any motorcycle connection with Crossley?

[Blackbird]

  Wow
Have been busy boys, thank you very much Bob & L.A.B,
thats been really helpful in knowing what make the car was. Really interesting web site to thx, might forward on photo's as well to see what light they might be able to shed on the bikes being built.

Thanks again guys.

John

  

[Blackbird]

 
Hi Guys
Just to keep you updated, spoken to a guy at the Crossley's web site. The car is a Crossley 25/30 London coupe, manufactured between approx 1920-1922.
They weren't aware of any motorcycles being assembled in a Crossley factory but are looking into it, so the mystery remains to what these bikes are and were called.
I'll keep you updated when I hear back, unless you guys have any further ideas?
Regards

John

[VintageBike]

Guys,

there's been another update to this page.  The evidence is leaning towards Blackburne....
N

[Rick_Parkington]

To enlarge upon Nigel's cryptic posting, the bikes in the picture are 1919-20 Blackburne 4hp models. The thinking is that, Blackburne being principally an engine manufacturer, these bikes were assembled by OEC in Gosport (not far form Portsmouth). When this picture was taken Blackburne were at Tongham near Aldershot. In 1921 they moved to Bookham in Surrey and all complete machine production was officially taken over by OEC. So, it is possible these pictures come from OEC where the bikes were being assembled before 1921 - which would be proof of that theory, otherwise I guess it is from Tongham. The only other possibilty is some distribution point, but the bikes being assembled suggests not. I doubt the cars have anything to do with it. Coincidentally, in the late 20's Blackburne shared their factory space with a car body refinisher so maybe they did the same at Tongham. The Crossley may be 'the bosses new car'. My final piece of evidence is that the rear-on bike that is clearly not the same as the rest,(belt drive etc- possibly a 350 Blackburne as used in the 1920 TT) has a number plate on the back and the two letters at the top look to me like PA. All Blackburne road test models had PA numbers - Surrey.  The later bikes are, I think a 1925 BSA model S 500 and a 1927 BSA. It's a great picture and I would love to see any more John may have, the history of Blackburne is one of my obsessions! Cheers, Rick