Please can anyone identify this bike

[Robbie]

Please help me to identify my bike.  I have been told it could be an Excelsior Pioneer, Excelsior A2 or a Wolf.  The dates given are between 1930 and 1936.  The engine prefix is CUVX.  Villiers Mk 15c engine 53mm borex 67mm stroke.

[33d6]

Definitely an Excelsior. Beyond any doubt. If you look down the list of topics in "Identify these bikes" to 'What year is this Excelsior' you will see a lovely photo of the first version of this bike with tube girder forks rather than the pressed steel forks used on your bike. Excelsior first fitted those pressed steel forks in 1930.

Excelsior fitted a variety of Villiers motors and various 2 and 3 speed Albion gearboxes in this frame so it is difficult to precisely date it without the frame numbers(and sometimes difficult even then). All these motors are readily interchangeable which makes it even more difficult to identify the precise year from the photo.

Villiers first produced your 148cc Mk15C motor in 1934 but essentially it is a cheaper single exhaust port version of the twin port 148cc Mk12C first brought out in 1932. They are basically the same motor. As Villiers engines were so cheap and so readily available who knows whether this is the original engine anyway.  It was cheaper to put in a secondhand motor than to recondition the original.

Whatever the case, you definitely have an Excelsior of the early to mid thirties. They are a lot of fun and handle remarkably well for what they are. Remember Excelsior won a couple of Lightweight TT's in this period. They knew how to make a prewar lightweight handle. You will be surprised.
Cheers, Bob

[Robbie]

Thanks Bob
Is there anywhere that you know that has paperwork of any kind on the above Excelsior.  I don't know where else to look for information or pictures
Many Thanks Robbie

[devidoldmoto]

this can perhaps help..

1930 Excelsior model 3  196cc Villers engine

Davide

[Robbie]

Many thanks David
The picture is a great help
Robbie

[33d6]

Info is very easy Robbie once you get the message that you not only hunt for specific Excelsior info but also look for seperate Villiers info for the engine and for the Albion gear box. Excelsior bought in these items and each factory supplied copious literature.

BMS has copies of all the yearly Excelsior sales  catalogues from go to whoa. If you get copies of the catalogues from 1929 to about 1934 or so that will help enormously. They have other Excelsior literature also. As well as BMS, the Vintage Motor Cycle Club has the best motorcycle library in the world and has a website listing all their holdings. Ther is a lot listed in Excelsior, Villiers and Albion.

Ask again if you need more info.
Cheers, Bob

[Robbie]

Hi Bob
I'm hoping you can help me again.  The bike appears to be a 1932 Excelsior BE4.  The gearbox in the BMS sales catalogue says that it should have an Albion M gearbox.  The only one that I can find is a 1920-25 instruction book.  Do you think that it is meant to be this gearbox or is there a later alternative gearbox.  Many thanks for all your help so far, it has been a great help.  
Thanks Robbie

[33d6]

I'm very sorry Robbie,
You asked a further question about Albion gearboxes for your Excelsior and I completely missed it. I only found it when I was idly looking back through the old forum topics.
Albion gearboxes are very tricky but not in the way you expect. Albions made a vast range of boxes, particularly at the lightweight end of the market. The big issue is not the actual model of box but the chain lines.
Chain lines are the distances from the centreline of the box as it sits in the frame both to the centreline of the drive sprocket and the centreline of the clutch sprocket.
Albions offered alternative chain lines for the same model of box. This means you can find what looks to be the correct box but when fitted to the bike either the clutch or the drive sprocket doesn't line up with the  sprocket at the other end of the chain.
This can be so confusing that I have made myself a simple tool to measure what the chain lines are on any Albion box I come across. This is simply a 12" square piece of MDF with two holes drilled in it to take the mounting studs of the gearbox and a series of fine lines drawn across it marking the centreline of the box and all the optional centrelines Albion offered for both sprockets.
I just plonk the box on the square with the mounting studs through the holes and then see which line the sprockets lie on. Very crude but it works.
As you can gather from all this, explaining Albion gearboxes involves a bit more than can be tucked in here. They are no problem technically when you get to know them. It is the oddball unexpected stuff like chain lines and kick starter variations that throw you.
Cheers, Bob