Author Topic: unknown motorcycle engine  (Read 4746 times)

Offline pepous

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unknown motorcycle engine
« on: November 02, 2008, 07:43:35 PM »
Does anybody know what this two stroke engine comes from?
« Last Edit: November 02, 2008, 07:45:03 PM by pepous »

Offline cardan

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Re: unknown motorcycle engine
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2008, 08:57:06 PM »
Interesting. Perhaps we need some clues. What country does it live in? Does it have shaft final drive, or bevels for a chain? How many speeds in the gear box? If the motor is yours, have you ever removed the bronze (?) cover between the magneto and the crankcase? If so, what's in there?
There are a few things about the motor that make it look a bit like a four stroke that has been converted to a two stroke.
Leon

Offline pepous

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Re: unknown motorcycle engine
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2008, 08:36:32 AM »
Engine is in Czech Republic, I found it on some local forum, the guy is asking to ID it. He says it has a shaft and 3 gears......
« Last Edit: November 03, 2008, 12:58:22 PM by pepous »

Offline cardan

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Re: unknown motorcycle engine
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2008, 02:02:38 PM »
I was thinking something like Cito or KG - built in former East Germany I think, so Czech Republic sounds OK. The motor seems to have a "timing chest" between the magneto and the crankcase - just the sort of place that you might expect to find timing gears and cams in a four stroke. There's even a plate on top where the tappets might mount. Cito/KG had valves at the front. Many two strokes used magnetos driven directly off the end of the crank, but this one is not on the same axis as the crank. In a four stroke it is geared down 2:1 and so is offset from the crank.

The reason I'm interested is that there was an unsuccessful Australian bike of the early 1920s called the "Aussi Also" (witty name if you know a little French and some Australian slang). The two stroke Aussi Also was a very similar layout to this engine (shaft drive, magneto in front), and was said to be a two stroke built from a four stroke. The reason it never ran properly was said to be lack of crank case compression, as you might expect from this type of conversion. Of course it has always been thought that the (bad) conversion was done in Australia, but I wonder if this engine tells us differently?

See if you can get the owner to take of the magneto and "timing cover" off, and show us what is inside.

I'll attach a photo of a Cito, taken here in Australia of all places.

Leon
« Last Edit: November 03, 2008, 02:05:32 PM by cardan »

Offline pepous

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Re: unknown motorcycle engine
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2008, 02:10:27 PM »
We are now thinking about Stock, built in Berlin and Heidelberg, always two-stroke, check links.....

http://www.dhm.de/datenbank/index.html?/datenbank/ak60/ak604738.html

http://www.motorrad-oldtimer-photo-archiv.de/shop1/index.php?cat=c166_Stock.html

Otherwise your observation about the timing nest and mag drive looks true, I will try to let him show whats in.....
« Last Edit: November 03, 2008, 02:25:37 PM by pepous »

Offline pepous

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Re: unknown motorcycle engine
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2008, 05:54:17 PM »
He says there is 1:1 gear from crank to magnet drive under "timing cover" and everything just right, nothing more, nothing less than expected. He found in Tragatsch that Krieger-Gnadig build 346 ccm two-strokes in cooperation with CITO so this is probably right direction. How does the German Cito get into Australia?

Offline cardan

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Re: unknown motorcycle engine
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2008, 09:57:32 PM »
Fascinating. Here is a picture of the Aussi Also two stroke:
http://users.senet.com.au/~mitchell/australian/australian.htm
Obviously the Germans had a bit of thing for motors of this layout. I can only assume that who-ever built it built both two strokes (like this one) and four strokes (thus the "timing chest"). Perhaps there is an expert on these things out there somewhere?
I doubt Cito were ever imported into Australia by an agent - it's likely that the bike was brought out by an individual, perhaps when immigrating. The photo comes from the family album of a friend of my wife, and was apparently taken in Australia.
Leon