Author Topic: Monet Goyon Engine ? Villiers ?  (Read 7002 times)

Offline Jonny The Goat

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Monet Goyon Engine ? Villiers ?
« on: November 04, 2014, 05:50:22 PM »
Hi Guys, Can anyone help with the ID of this engine. It is in a French Monet Goyon that was supposidly raced during the 30's-50's. I was told it was a Villiers R250. It looks a bit small to me to be a 250 though it does look to have a quite long stroke. I am not even sure it is a Villiers and I am sure it is not the original engine for the 1932 MG s17 frame its in. I cant see any real numbers or ID marks on the engine. And what number there is seems very worn and hard to read. It is a twin port 2 stroke with a one piece head and barrel. It has screw on type exhaust nuts. Any ideas? Also any help on the magneto as having trouble with this as have no spark may need to get it seviced / rebuilt but would like to know make of it.
           Cheers, Jon.   

Offline Jonny The Goat

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Re: Monet Goyon Engine ? Villiers ?
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2014, 05:52:59 PM »
A few more

Offline 33d6

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Re: Monet Goyon Engine ? Villiers ?
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2014, 11:16:44 PM »
Villiers and Monet Goyon were very close. Monet Goyon used Villiers engines in the 1920's and did very well in competition with them until the French rules were changed barring foreign engines. Monet Goyon then made Villiers engines under licence and continued on their merry way. Broadly speaking this meant their engines are very similar to Villiers but not identical twins. I think this is what you have. Villiers engines had a range of identifying numbers. Casting numbers, engine type/mark numbers, individual engine numbers and so on. Yours has nothing like any of these. I think it is a Monet Goyon production and certainly not a "racing" engine although that wouldn't stop some enthusiast from having fun thrashing it round a track.

Monet Goyon are actively restored in France. There are various clubs and on line forums. Start Googling and you will find them.

Have fun and let us know how you get on.

Cheers,

Offline Jonny The Goat

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Re: Monet Goyon Engine ? Villiers ?
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2014, 07:40:37 AM »
What I cant find from looking at French villiers engine pictures are exhusts that connect with screw on fittings like mine, they all seem to be the push in type. Also anyone enen come across a Villiers engine called a R250? I have not been able to find anything about one.
It is a odd bike and really a bit of a bitsa, it has both hand and foot change, aparantly to aid with push starting? and the rear brake pedal is behind the foot peg? I have had to move this as could not get on with trying to heal it. It had no lights on when I got it, I only put these on for the pictures for the DVLA so they would be more leaneant towards me getting a reg plate :) It seemed to work. Also is the gear box a Albion?, again no ID.
           Cheers, Jon 

Offline 33d6

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Re: Monet Goyon Engine ? Villiers ?
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2014, 11:11:33 AM »
Hi again,
Never heard of an R250 Villiers engine-ever. At the moment to entertain myself I am trying to assemble a list of all known Villiers engine numbers. That includes going through all original Villiers factory literature, ploughing through the old weekly "Motorcycling" from the start of Villiers to the end, listing everything found in the various published Villiers histories plus going through the local State Police vehicle records. You get the message, I'm really, really trying to list all their motorcycle engines and the engine identifying numbers. (We all have our little obsessions.) An R250 is not mentioned in any way, shape or form. Not a hint, not a jot nor a tittle. Nor does your engine look like a Villiers engine although there is a definite family resemblance.

Nor do I think the gearbox is Albion. I see nothing about it that shouts Albion and I can't see Albion not numbering something they made. How could you buy spares for it without some sort of identification so they knew what model gearbox you had. Both you and the factory would be in the dark. The combination hand and footchange idea was tried by a couple of firms. Was it Ural or BMW that had it until not that long ago? Like you I don't really see the point but factories still did it. It had nothing to do with push starting. Some also persisted with the heel operated footbrake long past its use by date and most riders thought exactly the same as you about it. Its not a very sensitive way to operate the brake but its not that uncommon.
Finally, Villiers didn't use that type of finned exhaust pipe nut before the early fifties. They started to use a screw on exhaust nut on some models in the mid thirties but they weren't finned. Your engine may just have the original exhaust nuts replaced with later finned items or be exactly what the tank says  - a Monet Goyon engine. Not Villiers at all. Personally, I think its straight Monet Goyon and you just have to identify which model.

Cheers,

Offline Jonny The Goat

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Re: Monet Goyon Engine ? Villiers ?
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2014, 07:03:40 PM »
I have to agree as I also cant find anything on any Villiers called a 250R or R250. I also at this stage have my doubts its a 250 as it does look a bit small to me.
I dont think its a Monet Goyon engine though (did they even do there own engine?) I have some time ago joined the French MG owners site and even though its quite hard as I do not speak French they have confirmed its not the right engine for the frame. The frame is a S17. They were also unsure of what the engine was :(
On the gearbox, this may well be a MG one if they built there own. Have not really looked into that. The foot change was not factory as this is a rocker type foot pedal welded to the end of the gear change shaft with the hand change bolted through the shaft. Obviously done years ago but can see no reason why. Had to remove this to strip down the gearbox and will probably not reweld it back on. With it the box it will not work with a  kick start fitted. I fitted kick start on but all became far to crowded to opperate anything. All very strange and can see why the seller said the bike was push started, though cant see a benifit of having both.
I am also struggling to ID the magneto, looked at loads of online photos and cant find one like this :(. This is the oldest bike I have had and my first non British, bought it because I liked the look and the patina but nest time I will stick with British :)