British Bike Identity

[QuePee]

Dear Forum Members,

Let me start out by apologising to you all for intruding in your forum. I know absolutely nothing about classic bike be they British or anyone else's however I do have a question that I was hoping one of the forum members could help me with.

I have a picture of my uncle taken in 1926 somewhere in South Wales, and I would like to include as many details as possible into his life history that I am currently writing.

So can you identify the bike that he is sitting on and can you give me a flavour as to whether it would have been new in 1926 or was it an old bike by then. Was it common or rare etc, in short anything that you think may be of interest.

Many thanks in advance and I am now going to try and attach the picture.

Best Regards

QuePee

[mini-me]

This is a good one.
PL is a surrey registration, used May 1930,  then Augsust 1931 through to July 1962.

Your bike will be at the early end of that. So your date of 1926 is wrong thats certain, no saddle tanks then.

Engine looks like  a JAP proprietry engine, I think I can make out the typical  JAP dumbell nut and the letters JAP in script to the left of it, and a pilgrim pump just peks out above his turn-up but I'm not 100% sure, twin port but I can't place it; looks like a light weight but has quite large brakes for a light weight of that era,and heavyweight forks, the rear end came out first on my screen and my first thought was, ah Levis, but its not.

Its also got a speedo fitted which was not a legal requirement till the mid/late 1930s.

Other ideas will be along soon enough.

[cardan]

Hi QuePee,

Your uncle's bike is a rather strange beast: the cycle parts are Rudge, but the motor is not. Instead of the usual 4-valve Rudge motor, the motor seems to be a single-cylinder 2-port (thus the exhaust pipe on either side) sloping motor, probably JAP.

Now Rudge did build a JAP-engined 250cc bike, in 1929 and 1930 only, but it had a vertical motor.

How your uncle came to have a Rudge fitted with a sloping JAP motor is an interesting question. The bike certainly didn't leave the factory like that.

Re date: certainly no earlier than 1928 (when Rudge introduced their saddle tank), more likely the cycle parts come from a 1929-30 model, and the photo may have been taken several years later. There's another challenge for you!

(I was typing at the same time as mini-me - the rego seems to support a 1930s photo.)

Cheers

Leon

[mini-me]

Yes Rudge fits, I thought Rudge for a sec, when I looked at the brakes, but the JAP engine scrubbed that; I didn't know Rudge fitted JAP either.

Looks to be well put together if its a home build.

[QuePee]

Yes Rudge fits, I thought Rudge for a sec, when I looked at the brakes, but the JAP engine scrubbed that; I didn't know Rudge fitted JAP either.

Looks to be well put together if its a home build.

Thanks for the comments so far, it's beginning to look like this was a homebuilt bike using parts from various donors. Knowing my uncle (much later in life admittedly) I would not put that past him. He did have some rather interesting skills.

QP

[33d6]

Its a 250cc F/4 Matchless engine. This is one of the many variants Matchless made of their 1926-1940 250cc engine. All the same bore and stroke, some ohv, some sidevalve but all the same basic engine. Steadily improved over the years in the same way the 350 and 500 engines were it was a little beauty by the time Hitler stopped play in 1940. Pity they didn't make it after the war instead of that ugly thing they made instead. The F/4 was a sloper version and was only catalogued for the 1934 and 35 season. If you look closely you can see the points cover on the timing case for the coil ignition.
Cheers,

[cardan]

Its a 250cc F/4 Matchless engine.

Mmm... I'm not so sure. The JAP and the Matchless are similar, but the flat-on-the-bottom rocker box and the exhaust pipe angle look more JAP than Matchless to me.

The simplest thing I can think of is that the bike started life as a 1930 250cc Rudge, which used a vertical JAP motor, but was modified later to give a "modern" sloping motor, rear set footrests, and high-level pipes. The George Dance rubber knee grips are also a nice touch.

A couple of survivors to contemplate, both with the correct W-code-for-1930 JAP 250 motor:
http://www.vintage-motorcycle.com/index.php?language=en&site=3&pid=14&id=387
https://www.mecum.com/lots/LV0115-200458/1930-rudge-python-250-jap/

Unfortunately the 250 is not illustrated in the 1930 Rudge catalogue I have, but the image below is from the 1929 catalogue. JAP rockers were open in 1929.

Cheers

Leon

[mini-me]

No not Matchless, you can read the JAP script to the left of the dumbell nut on the rocker cover,
I can't see a points cover but I can plainly see a pilgrim pump. Not used on that Matchless engine.
also different pushrod tubes and tappet cover shape.

see here

https://goo.gl/images/pR7rNX

[33d6]

Yep, I'll give you that one, mini-me. The F/4 is close but no banana. I love these ancient photos. We see some gorgeous bikes.
Cheers,

[mini-me]

I agree, my best entertainment these days off the net  is these old pics and trying to work out as much detail from them as possible.

[QuePee]

Thanks once again for all your kind help. I am glad I set such an apparently interesting challenge.

To sum up I believe the following to be our best guess,

1. Its a Rudge frame
2. The date is later than thought, at least 1930 or maybe later
3. The registration is from Surrey
4. The engine is a little less certain. I think the consensus is that it is  a JAP unit and this was not a standard engine for the frame so presumably a home-built modification.

Have I summed up your views correctly?

Obviously I would really like to know the full story behind this machine but I guess now that the owner has been gone for 40 years I will never know for certain. But thanks to the erudite folk on this forum I have a much better idea of the story.

Best Regards

QP

[mini-me]

That is more or less it.

Unlikely you'll get much more off that pic.
some background to the rider and his skills might throw more light.

[AllanMatt]

That is more or less it.

Unlikely you'll get much more off that pic.
some background to the rider and his skills might throw more light.

That's a stunning bike. Looks like 1930s to me.