Author Topic: Rusted, hanging on the wall in a Melbourne cafe  (Read 576 times)

Offline willo27

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Rusted, hanging on the wall in a Melbourne cafe
« on: August 29, 2017, 12:21:08 PM »
Seen hanging on the wall in an (outer) Melbourne Australia cafe...any idea what it might be?

Offline cardan

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 570
  • Karma: +15/-2
    • View Profile
    • earlymotor.com
    • Email
Re: Rusted, hanging on the wall in a Melbourne cafe
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2017, 12:36:07 AM »

Not too rusty to restore! It's a c1925 Coventry Eagle. Some of these were very sporty indeed, but this one has the "cooking" single cam JAP engine. Still, a really nice and desirable bike. Wasted hanging in a cafe? If it was restored, it could still be in the cafe, but at least you could go out for a ride on the weekend.

In the late 1920s, the Victoria Police amassed a fleet of Coventry Eagles. The cafe bike is possibly one of them. http://earlymotor.com/forsale/coventry-eagle/index.htm

Leon

Offline chaterlea25

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 244
  • Karma: +11/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Rusted, hanging on the wall in a Melbourne cafe
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2017, 12:54:16 AM »
Hi Leon,

I think its a bitsa? unless Coventry Eagle used Chater Lea forks??
The front forks and hub are definitely Chater Lea ,
I would give my eye teeth for them

I have just spent most of the day adding filler to build up the bottom yoke from the forks for my CL
All the other 3 or 4 CL's I have managed to photograph have a strengthening web on the yoke
Mine did not and broke  :o it seems to have been welded (badly) a couple of times ::)
Tomorrow, its going for 3D scanning and printing  a copy of it taking into account of shrinkage when being cast

John

Offline cardan

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 570
  • Karma: +15/-2
    • View Profile
    • earlymotor.com
    • Email
Re: Rusted, hanging on the wall in a Melbourne cafe
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2017, 11:11:02 AM »

Hi John,

I'm not sure if CE used CL forks and hubs - I had a quick look and in the 1920s they used (at least) forks of various styles from Brampton, Montgomery, Druid and Webb, but no sign of CL. Boy, did they make some different model bikes!

Is the cafe bike a bitsa? I don't know. I've made myself giddy looking at the photo and I can't really decide. Am I right in thinking the CL forks are late 1920s? If the bike is Coventry Eagle, it's likely 1922-1923 or so, maybe a 680 JAP twin, with CS Sturmey gearbox, and fitted with a later CL fork? The way the motor is sitting you may be right and there's something fishy going on. We'd have to either get it down, or climb a ladder to get a closer look. While we were there, we could nick the front fork for you.

A good talking point for a cafe.

Cheers

Leon

Offline chaterlea25

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 244
  • Karma: +11/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Rusted, hanging on the wall in a Melbourne cafe
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2017, 11:41:57 PM »
Hi Leon,
The CL forks hardly changed in design from 23 to 34/5, the only noticeable difference is the larger front brake on the later 550sv models made for the AA
I have never seen another make of motorcycle fitted with this type of CL forks
Looking at the picture again I could be convinced that the rear frame triangle is Chater Lea as well
I can see the drawbolt chain adjusters, and the rear hub,
I think I can make out the pegs that engage with the QD wheels
It also looks to have the CL alloy rear chain guard
The centre portion of the frame is different to my smaller 350 which does not have sidecar lugs
Am I suffering from wishful  thinking  ::)
Attached are some photos of CL frames for your observations

John


Offline cardan

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 570
  • Karma: +15/-2
    • View Profile
    • earlymotor.com
    • Email
Re: Rusted, hanging on the wall in a Melbourne cafe
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2017, 01:49:38 AM »

I think you're getting very close John. The front diamond also has quite a few CL features, like the rear-exiting seat post, and the seat stays that attach a little way down the seat tube. As a teenager in the 1970s I devoured the Vintage Road Test Journals, and remember the sporting Blackburne-engined 1923 CL in Volume 2 very well. The book is still on the bookshelf, and the clear photos are useful here. The detail around the seat lug looks very much like the cafe bike, as does steering damper. No sidecar lugs on the frame, though. But 1923 was the first year of the 545cc side valve, using Chater Lea's own engine. That had sidecar lugs, and they're identical to the cafe bike. No dampers shown on the front forks in the Motor Cycle photo, but production bikes may have differed. A Sturmey Archer gear box was fitted, just like the cafe bike.

I wonder if we're looking at a 1923-4 545cc Chater Lea, with a JAP twin shoe-horned in at some stage, many years ago by the look of it.

Love the CL frames John, but hope you've got more parts lurking in the shed!

Cheers

Leon

Offline 33d6

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 626
  • Karma: +20/-2
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Rusted, hanging on the wall in a Melbourne cafe
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2017, 03:46:19 AM »
If Willo27 likes to say what cafe the beast is in I'll go out and take a few more photos.
I also may accidentally have my ladder in the back of the van when I do it because some frame/engine/gearbox numbers wouldn't go astray either.
Being a retired old f*rt does have it good points sometimes.

Cheers,

Offline cardan

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 570
  • Karma: +15/-2
    • View Profile
    • earlymotor.com
    • Email
Re: Rusted, hanging on the wall in a Melbourne cafe
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2017, 06:25:32 AM »

Fun, isn't it?

Leon

Offline chaterlea25

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 244
  • Karma: +11/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Rusted, hanging on the wall in a Melbourne cafe
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2017, 04:01:58 PM »
Hi Leon and Cardan,
A problem with seeing the Chater Lea frame numbers is that they are usually under the gearbox adjuster plate on the rear frame !
My CL project has been on the back burner for far too long, Its a 1925 Blackburne engined Super Sports with a Moss gearbox
It was the most worn out poor bike that I have ever come across  :(
I now have most of the crapped out parts sorted, but there's still a ways to go to get it all together
The frame pic I posted is from 5/6/7 years ago
Most of the engine is sorted but the Moss box casing needs some more attention before it can be built up

The steering damper does not appear to have been fitted in 23 or 24 ?
My 25 has an Andre damper that must have been fitted from new as there are tapped holes inf the tank top for the anchor plate
The catlog pic of a 24 model  attached does not have a damper,
I have a period picture that shows no damper fitted to an identical bike
Dating it to 24 because of the transitional engine features?? external valve lifter arm and timing case/cover with small brass badge.

John
« Last Edit: September 01, 2017, 04:26:49 PM by chaterlea25 »

Offline cardan

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 570
  • Karma: +15/-2
    • View Profile
    • earlymotor.com
    • Email
Re: Rusted, hanging on the wall in a Melbourne cafe
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2017, 12:47:35 AM »

Oh it's a lovely little bike! Everything a vintage bike should be, provided you're not tall.

The steering damper is an easy fit to the flat tank bikes, because the anchor just clamps around the top frame tube. More difficult with the saddle tank bikes, where the tank has to have a mounting point built it.

I found another photo of the 1923 545, and the gearbox was certainly Sturmey Archer CS as on the cafe bike. I think we could be pretty certain that it is/was an early 545, with a JAP twin engine fitted, and the Coventry Eagle red/black paint job to replace the powder blue (?) CL tank scheme.

As much as we'd like to know the frame number, I'm not sure we want to encourage 33d6 to climb his ladder and do a partial disassembly at ceiling height!! I can just imagine the report on the evening news when it all goes wrong.

Cheers

Leon

Offline willo27

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Rusted, hanging on the wall in a Melbourne cafe
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2017, 12:02:12 AM »
It's at the blue dog cafe in Park Orchards.
I'm sure they wouldn't mind me spruiking up some business 👍

Offline 33d6

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 626
  • Karma: +20/-2
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Rusted, hanging on the wall in a Melbourne cafe
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2017, 01:03:01 AM »
I live on the east side of town. Park Orchards is not too far away at all. Now for the bad news. The Blue Dog is shut Mondays and Tuesdays so I'll have to wait until they're open later in the week.

As you say Leon, "Ain't this fun."

Cheers,

Offline willo27

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Rusted, hanging on the wall in a Melbourne cafe
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2017, 01:09:03 AM »
Only two more sleeps...
Go for breakfast btw, it's very good.

Offline cardan

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 570
  • Karma: +15/-2
    • View Profile
    • earlymotor.com
    • Email
Re: Rusted, hanging on the wall in a Melbourne cafe
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2017, 04:21:12 AM »

Shall we expect a live feed from The Blue Dog on Wednesday morning???

Have fun.

Leon

Offline 33d6

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 626
  • Karma: +20/-2
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Rusted, hanging on the wall in a Melbourne cafe
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2017, 02:06:23 AM »
Well, I went to the Blue Dog Bar and had a good look at the beast. I tried to get better photos but the the bike hangs over the only built in booth in the place which made it exceedingly awkward. My photos are rubbish. Willo27 did as good a job as could be expected. Nevertheless I got a lot more information.

The bike belonged to the owners father. He found it a long time ago and it came with sidecar attached. The sidecar is still around. It also came with the rear wheel. You can see where it was recently removed to put the bike up on display. No knowledge of front wheel but definitely QD as you can see the peg arrangement.

It is definitely Chater Lea, It is in every way identical to the photos CL25 showed us right down to the unique horizontal saddle mounting tube.

The J.A.P engine is not original. It is properly mounted in the frame but you have to see the footrest arrangement to believe it. Obviously made by a boozy blacksmith with a monster hangover. I tried to get the engine numbers but everything is covered with the crud of ages. The only numbers I could find were on the timing side crankcase and mostly illegible. The best I could do was O ??????? EXU. Have no idea about that. Scraping the crud away wasn't possible.

Could find no numbers on the gear box but it is as we know, a CS Sturmey Archer.

No frame number visible.

The owner would be delighted to know anything about the bike. He would be pleased for any info . I have his email address to forward on anything we wish to tell him.

Cheers,