Author Topic: Excelsior year  (Read 182 times)

Offline Rattlehead

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Excelsior year
« on: November 07, 2017, 10:41:51 PM »
Hi all, I've just joined up and I need a bit of help, I've just bought what I believe to be an Excelsior roadmaster and I need a bit of help, it's got a villiers 6E motor and a rigid frame, the frame number is 10D  / 1143. what I want to know is the year of it, I think it's a 1949 or 1950.
Any help would be appreciated. 

Offline 33d6

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Re: Excelsior year
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2017, 11:14:53 AM »
I would recheck your frame number. In 1949 the frame number prefix for your model was TUD. It seems possible yours was stamped a little lightly. Not unknown with Excelsior.
Let us know.
Cheers,

Offline Rattlehead

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Re: Excelsior year
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2017, 10:14:17 PM »
Thanks, I will recheck

Offline Rattlehead

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Re: Excelsior year
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2017, 10:18:22 PM »
Ok, I've just checked and I think you're right, it it probably RID.

Offline Rattlehead

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Re: Excelsior year
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2017, 10:19:36 PM »
Sorry, TUD

Offline Rattlehead

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Re: Excelsior year
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2017, 10:27:27 PM »
Yes, definately TUD 1143

Offline 33d6

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Re: Excelsior year
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2017, 11:35:56 PM »
Well, definitely a 1949 Excelsior then. The next thing to check is the engine number. 1949 was the first year of the 6E engine and the gearbox of those very first 6E had very wide ratios quickly found rather clumsy for normal road use.   One of the early improvements of the 6E was fitting more road friendly ratios in the gearbox. This is all academic stuff (who cares about internal gear box ratios) except Villiers kept making the early wide ratios but then selling them as special wide ratios for Trials use.
So, IF your bike still has its original engine and IF it is one of the very first batch of 6E,s you may find it fitted with what became the wide ratio Trials box. Of course this all dates from many years ago. Anything may have happened to your bike since it was new but it's possible.
I have the relevant engine numbers buried away somewhere so if you like to put the engine number up here I'll dig out what I know.
Cheers,

Offline Rattlehead

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Re: Excelsior year
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2017, 01:21:40 PM »
That's great, thanks for the info.
The engine number appears to be 948 8602

Offline 33d6

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Re: Excelsior year
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2017, 06:34:09 AM »
That engine is a replacement. The engine number prefix identifies it as an engine first fitted to a 1950 James, not an Excelsior. According to my local police records the appropriate engine number prefix for your model Excelsior was 905/***. This is not surprising as for many years it was far cheaper to buy a used Villiers engine from a wreckers than to spend money on rebuilding a worn out one to new. Plus of course if you did lash out on a reconditioned exchange unit no one cared about the original engine numbers anyway. This was a daily rider working bike not anything fancy.

As to the gear ratios, Villiers identified the change over to ratios more usable on the road by stamping a 'D' suffix after the engine number. This also identifies updates to the crankcase compression seals. You can see from your engine number that both the original engine and the one you have now came from the factory with the wide ratio box but who knows what has been done in the last 60 years. If you want to know all the technical ins and outs buy yourself a third or fourth edition of "The Villiers Engine" by B E Browning and published by Pearsons.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Villiers.
Cheers,





Offline Rattlehead

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Re: Excelsior year
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2017, 07:14:13 AM »
That's great, now that I know what it is I Can try and register it and try and get the missing parts together, then start the restoration .
Thankyou for your help.

Offline Rattlehead

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Re: Excelsior year
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2017, 01:50:20 PM »
That engine is a replacement. The engine number prefix identifies it as an engine first fitted to a 1950 James, not an Excelsior. According to my local police records the appropriate engine number prefix for your model Excelsior was 905/***. This is not surprising as for many years it was far cheaper to buy a used Villiers engine from a wreckers than to spend money on rebuilding a worn out one to new. Plus of course if you did lash out on a reconditioned exchange unit no one cared about the original engine numbers anyway. This was a daily rider working bike not anything fancy.

As to the gear ratios, Villiers identified the change over to ratios more usable on the road by stamping a 'D' suffix after the engine number. This also identifies updates to the crankcase compression seals. You can see from your engine number that both the original engine and the one you have now came from the factory with the wide ratio box but who knows what has been done in the last 60 years. If you want to know all the technical ins and outs buy yourself a third or fourth edition of "The Villiers Engine" by B E Browning and published by Pearsons.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Villiers.
Cheers,
Hi 33d6, I need a dating certificate for this bike, any ideas?
Cheers.

Offline 33d6

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Re: Excelsior year
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2017, 08:35:40 PM »
Sorry Rattlehead, sounds like you live in the UK. I live in Australia. We have our own crazy rules and regulations but they're not the same as yours. Someone on this forum will know what hoops you have to jump through.
Best of luck.

Offline TGR90B

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Re: Excelsior year
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2017, 09:01:26 PM »
Rattle, I think there's an organisation called The British Two Stroke Club; or something similar. I've seen them referred to in connection with dating.
HTH, Dave.
Getting grumpy.

Offline Rattlehead

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Re: Excelsior year
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2017, 10:37:55 AM »
Thanks guys!