Author Topic: Tank identity ??  (Read 762 times)

Offline friday

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Tank identity ??
« on: June 20, 2018, 06:18:40 AM »
Im trying to identify parts of this bike for an artical Im scratching together .
chassis = 49 - 52- Indian scout , motor = crocker ,  trans = HD predate electra-glide.
fuel tank = looks brit ??
oil tank = brit ??

HD clutch = 37 tooth 2 row that requires 428-2 chain , that requires 2 row motor sprocket for 1" taper motor shaft = pre 1954 HD sprocket  , tin primary case .
trans out put = HD therefore 530 rear chain

usually motor has magneto out front BUT notice there is a tail and head light ?  there fore , there is power or a total loss battery strapped on but not visable thru rear wheel ?? . magneto could be replaced by gen . there was a dizzy also available for there motors , which would need a gen which was driven off stock clutch basket which this is not . it was an autolite clock wise rot.
HD usually had gen off front of motor driven by the timing gears .
motor has 2 separate oil pumps which are the copper pipes up the guts centre .

HD primary has no allowance for dynamo take off drive or pulley
under the tank theres a wire parallel to down tube

front brake lever by his elbow . no shadow of RH lever on tank = no clutch lever therefore LH foot clutch and LH hand change .
bike is resting on the kicker . right above kick spring is where clutch arm is which needs room to move forwards and backwards .
between the blue line , the rear exhaust and above the clutch arm there is a mass fairly well lit but  ....possibly brit dynamo ?    ......more I look its most likely the shifter drum housing / lid
 
Rear hub =  LH sprocket drum ??  brit equivalents ?
49 scout rear axle is straight dia 1/2-20 , any brit equivalents ?

any ideas or theory , feel free to throw it in the mix , there cant be any wrong answers


« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 07:42:47 AM by friday »

Offline friday

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Re: Tank identity ??
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2018, 06:33:49 AM »
heres Paul Bigsby crocker with HD trans with Battery down back and HD tin primary cases but for VL trans which was a crash box . HD synchro box wasnt available at that time
foot clutch hand change

reason for alt trans is the crocker trans case was a part of the frame .
this bike has dizzy mount where the magneto usually goes

Offline mini-me

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Re: Tank identity ??
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2018, 11:58:29 AM »
No Crockers here but some have crocks-of-shite.

lousy photo but frame could be BSA plunger; oil tank has shades of AMC; forks could be BSA,even Matchless.

If your magneto is dizzy do the bolts up.


Offline R

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Re: Tank identity ??
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2018, 12:02:56 PM »
That chrome oil tank on the crocker scout looks to be BSA, widely used 1939 into the 60s.
Surprisingly tough to find a good view of one.


You know, I have half a suspicion that frame might be norton.
The plunger units look to be slightly slanted forward, and the central axle mounts look to be alloy,
and the frame tube meeting the plunger casting is higher up, and the plunger business is not waisted in the middle, and the muffler mounting point just ahead of the alloy part are all more Norton than Scout ?

Even the centre of the chrome back rim is painted black, ala 40s Norton ?
That might make the tank Norton too ?  Not impossible, its tough to see the tank cap clearly though, that would make it hinged...

Hopethishelps !


Offline friday

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Re: Tank identity ??
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2018, 10:29:43 PM »
know what ?
you just might be swinging the right direction

jesus , now I have to go Norton searching . The lady is still alive , Im gonna have to do some asking . I was hoping to be able to do visual research and fill in the gaps with logic what ever that is.
definite crocker rear light .
the seat springs are conical not usual behive .
the bike is leaner towards the camera , leaning on the kicker which also distorts things

pic is late 50s early 60s , brit bike imports were flooding into usa

thanks guys for any info no matter what observations

the way the light hits the rear frame it kindve hi-lites norton features ......

the oil tank definite bsa m20 ish

is there an ignition key next to the front edge of the rear tyre  level with the gear box filler cap ?....

jesus ....time to count spokes over 50% of the rim then approximate  :P   cheers

Offline john.k

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Re: Tank identity ??
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2018, 09:38:18 AM »
As you might expect,the frame,tank, ,forks, front wheel ,and likely back are Indian 249.....the Crocker is the rare hemi head race engine,and the frame must be altered somewhat to fit a much taller engine.....There are plenty of 249 s converted with Scout motors,when the 249 motor blew up,which didnt take long.

Offline john.k

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Re: Tank identity ??
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2018, 09:59:47 AM »
Oh,and the oil tank is a Mk1 Sq4.say 1950

Offline R

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Re: Tank identity ??
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2018, 10:19:03 AM »
Oh,and the oil tank is a Mk1 Sq4.say 1950

Too angular and parallel ?

Thats quite a big pic, can zoom in.

http://ironhorsespares.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Ariel-Mk1-Square-4-Timing-Side.jpg



Offline R

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Re: Tank identity ??
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2018, 10:23:13 AM »
It was the fact that the plunger suspension units were slanted slightly forwards that got me wondering. Its tough to marry that up to a postwar Indian Scout frame. ?

http://www.classicmotorcycleconsignments.com/motorcycles/Indian/images/1949%20Indian%20Scout/1949%20Indian%20Scout-BJulian-1.jpg

https://silodrome.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/1948-Norton-490cc-ES2.jpg

I've got a few Norton plunger models, and they are quite distinctive in the suspension dept.  Which is not to say this bikes parentage is all purebred (?), builders of 'bitzers' are a gifted lot at grafting on stray and assorted bits - hence the BSA oil tank etc.
Are there any other pics of this Crocker to view, we wonder ?

Offline john.k

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Re: Tank identity ??
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2018, 02:29:31 PM »
I have no doubt that the whole bike is Indian 249 less motor and box........the oil tank may not be Ariel,but looks a lot like one.........the 249 had the oil tank on the other side,and a lot smaller..Its near impossible to see what the gearbox is,but HD 4 speed would be a good choice  for the motor.

Offline friday

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Re: Tank identity ??
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2018, 09:55:40 PM »
I received an email from Glenn Bator this morning he had crocker 106 and 107 . a red triumph with crocker .  I wanted to know sprocket size in order to arry these parts .
no surprise hes sold both !

ok this bike was owned by Elmo Loopers sister and her husband in the pic . its a Hemi from his stash . these bikes were scrap metal value .
Elmo was the guy who bought the remains of crocker .

post war surplus was everywhere . Indian was finished and was importing AJS ,matchy , norton ,vincent etc
he had reputation for building hybrids so I naturally assumed this to be a 249 . the 249 twin had plunger , the 149 single was rigid bolt rear frame section  . the front half is the same for 149 and 249 .

when I look at the way the light hits the rear plunger it certainly does show out line of detail of norton . that bolt for the exhaust cat be ignored .

Ive contacted Norton club hopefully some one will lock onto the faint profile and know for sure and id that frame .

Post war USA brit bikes were the only way to go . there was the sportster XLCH but heavy compared to brit bikes . vincent was the fastest thing on the road .

If given choice at that time , why not a MANX frame , crocker motor , HD trans , a whatsit tank , etc  all post war cheap as chips .

Crocker shaft is 1" dia , HD sprocket 1" dia  taper up to 1954 = 428-2 row chain .
crocker sprocket  #35 - 4 row chain same as chief . 
HD clutch = 37 tooth 2 row sprocket , tin primary . predating electraglide etc .

crocker trans is a no go , the case is a casting of the frame , even though it was constant mesh it was limited to that frame only . thats why there are hybrid bikes .
even Paul Bigsby used HD trans whish is 428-2 chain .

anyway heres news to me .... manx plunger frame . it has a kink in the frame for taller engine

I have been trying to get more pics and info from the family . what you have to understand is normal people dont find bikes anywhere near as important as us so I have to be careful there

« Last Edit: June 22, 2018, 12:54:21 AM by friday »

Offline friday

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Re: Tank identity ??
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2018, 12:47:42 AM »
this is rear frame section of 249 without all the bling . seat spring mounts