Author Topic: Potential project but can't identify  (Read 285 times)

Offline Johnir62

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Potential project but can't identify
« on: July 23, 2019, 06:39:46 PM »
Hi All,

This is my first post, I have been given this motorbike by an uncle and I'm thinking about getting it fixed up.

I can't find anything on the net that can help me identify what it is. It seems like it had a single cylinder (two tail pipes merged into one) engine.  Based on a second or third hand story I suspect that it might be Russian but I find that hard to believe because it has a CEV f.lli pagani headlamp. However, apart from the headlamp and "F" on the fuel tank, there are no other markings that I can find to help identify it.

Any help would be most appreciated.

John

Offline R

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Re: Potential project but can't identify
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2019, 11:12:02 PM »
Where (what country) did you find it. ?
Just out of curiousity, what brand of tyres are on it ?

1st step with something like this is out with the Tragatsch (Encyclopedia of World Motorcycles)
There are way more F's than I imagined, and a few possibilities.
Several of them Italian, but nothing that remotely matches.
Note that they don't faintly show EVERY model of every year.
that style of twin shock swingarm bike looks to 1960s at least ?,
so that eliminates a number of manufacturers.

Then there is this list of Italian motorcycles of the F variety.
A few possibilities, but again nothing that seems to match. ?
http://www.woiweb.com/wiki/index.php?title=Motorcycle_Information_and_Photos_by_Marque:_F

Next step - study the threads on the nuts and bolts.
Having a small jar of samples of metric and imperial (and unified) helps,
this helps narrow it down to metric or british or american or even possibly japanese.

Hopefully the tank badge relates to the name !
Interesting puzzle, I look forward to more replies...

This Flandria did pop up along the way - a more modern version of the same thing ?
Made in Belgium apparently.
Some of them do have twin pipes.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRfzkz7qJpF0e_6g70UBXN6pE7BHlNs3_2bLYdBooT041UXJjGz
https://www.france-troc.com/ImgUsers/annonces/2016/10/851018/lvjpe5zuut.jpg

« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 11:14:43 PM by R »

Offline cardan

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Re: Potential project but can't identify
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2019, 01:36:34 AM »

Flli Pagani (CEV) - the maker of the headlamp - is based in Milano, Italy, so a fair bet the bike is Italian?

Nice little thing, but tricky to restore?

Cheers

Leon

Offline cardan

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Re: Potential project but can't identify
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2019, 02:52:00 AM »

"a fair bet the bike is Italian?"


Just shows how little I know about modern motorcycles! Portugese, I think. Famel.

They built (and possibly re-badged?) a huge range of models, but the tank badge on this more modern Famel suggests the marque is correct.

Date? A bit puzzled here too, but I assume 1960s, or maybe 70s.

Good luck!

Leon

« Last Edit: July 24, 2019, 05:40:39 AM by cardan »

Offline R

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Re: Potential project but can't identify
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2019, 05:36:18 AM »
Think you have nailed it for the "F" tank logo.
The strip on the tank sez Famel ?!

There seem to be legions of different years and models,
including a tieup with Zundapp "from 1965".

Doesn't seem to be much info around ?, although my Portuguese is a little lacking...
Can't readily spot the above model.


Offline cardan

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Re: Potential project but can't identify
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2019, 05:42:18 AM »

Yep, Famel, not Favel as I wrote for some reason. Just edited my original post. Bad day today.

Leon

Offline R

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Re: Potential project but can't identify
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2019, 05:53:41 AM »
You nailed it, so a mere typo is insignificant in the scheme of things.

And Famel doesn't seem to appear in Tragatsch, so its a 'NAIT' (in british motorcycle mag parlance).
I'm not entirely sure what this stands for, but Not In Tragatsch seems to be part of it...

A list of some models here - but these all seem to be the 50cc versions.
http://motosdeportugal.com/en/search?brand=45&model=&engine=&displacement=&engine_type=&typology=&startup=
Pics seem to be of more modern types, for the ones I tried.

Offline cardan

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Re: Potential project but can't identify
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2019, 07:17:17 AM »

I found Famel in Hugo Wilson's "Encyclopedia of the Motorcycle". Having looked through the Italian ones, like R, I could find nothing likely.

I then tried Spain, which, according to Wilson, doesn't have a single motorcycle brand beginning with F. Portugal is adjacent to Spain, both geographically and in Wilson's book.

"NAIT" comes from Mike Worthington-Williams, writing in the Classic Motor Cycle magazine when it appeared in 1982/3: "Not Appearing in Tragatsch". Readers wrote in, with pen and paper, and added makes that Tragatch had left out of his tremendous encyclopedia. No doubt Wilson took advantage of this for his 1995 book.

Compiling books like this was a huge task before the interweb. A little easier now, but one caution is that mistakes made loooong ago live on on the internet.

Has anyone noticed that the internet is not particularly good at answering "what is my mystery motorcycle?"

Hopefully someone can come up with the exact model of the mystery Famel. Quite fun to own a Portugese motorcycle!

Cheers

Leon

Offline Rex

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Re: Potential project but can't identify
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2019, 09:23:16 AM »
Now it's been identified maybe you should give it back to your uncle? ;)

Offline iansoady

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Re: Potential project but can't identify
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2019, 10:29:42 AM »
I agree - there's a lot of potential heartache there. But it would keep you off the streets (literally).
Ian
1952 Norton ES2
1982 Moto Guzzi V50

Offline R

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Re: Potential project but can't identify
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2019, 10:51:43 AM »
Without an engine, its not going to go far !!
And if it truly is a 50 cc, it won't go far either !

The Famel Periquito model seems to have a similar tank and some other similar features.
This one looks to be a later year though, we need something earlier ?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-AAf1q8YIq80/T71Zq7CcwwI/AAAAAAAAA6s/MCCn0iYPX-U/s1600/DSCF4004.JPG
« Last Edit: July 24, 2019, 11:18:41 AM by R »

Offline iansoady

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Re: Potential project but can't identify
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2019, 03:29:13 PM »
That looks like a fairly common Sachs engine. Millions around sur le continent.
Ian
1952 Norton ES2
1982 Moto Guzzi V50

Offline Johnir62

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Re: Potential project but can't identify
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2019, 05:31:50 PM »
Where (what country) did you find it. ?
Just out of curiousity, what brand of tyres are on it ?

Thank you all for your very detailed replies.

I found it in Greece and the tires are Lien Shin 275-17.

You've all made me a bit worried about attempting to fix it. For starters I need to find a way to ship it back to the UK.
Having said that, I've given the bike a good looking over and there is no structural or serious rust issues - all of it seems to be surface rust.

I'm not sure if what I say next will have me banned for life from this forum, but I've been thinking that I wouldn't replace the 50cc engine instead fitting an electric motor? Potentially a hub motor, and battery pack and electrical components where the engine should be. 

Offline Rex

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Re: Potential project but can't identify
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2019, 06:34:05 PM »
That sounds like it could be expensive, but if you want to have a go at it why not just buy a heap project already UK registered?
There's really no shortage of knackered little bikes on Ebay UK if that's want you want to try.

Offline R

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Re: Potential project but can't identify
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2019, 11:23:20 PM »
but I've been thinking that I wouldn't replace the 50cc engine instead fitting an electric motor? Potentially a hub motor, and battery pack and electrical components where the engine should be.

Thats a very interesting idea.
The way the world is going, a forward thinking one too.

I can't help thinking though that Rex's advice about starting with something that is already in the UK may be the way to go,
a rusty 50cc with no engine is going to cost more to ship than it is worth. ? And jumping through all the administrative/paperwork
hoops isn't going to be worth it . ??  Besides, if its not a Zundapp, it should be British, as Boris would say (!!?).