Author Topic: L'il Villiers  (Read 144 times)

Offline R

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L'il Villiers
« on: July 19, 2026, 07:46:45 AM »
OK, whatizit  ?

Looks a bit Waratah, but doesn't have the gearchange through the petrol tank.
And the forks look chunkier ?

Coming up for auction next month ?, so may be more details then.
Enough missing to keep the new owner awake at night ....

https://scontent.fbne5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/748568222_1796919814999970_838114587227374269_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_tt6&cstp=mx2048x1537&ctp=s960x960&_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=946e27&_nc_ohc=hnAfGCHmubYQ7kNvwH1FWNH&_nc_oc=AdrBsc8nGpxvg45271Ats07ehamqEF7w9WnYFBDWnC35VFmd76WSt4S9ttJf2Fj-zHk&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fbne5-1.fna&_nc_gid=i98g2pvOTsLEitBXwkCJRw&_nc_ss=7b289&oh=00_AQAG6z-H2xGx6mrjqCG21_NkfOEULAvJB9j0eGGUxO1l4Q&oe=6A623580

A good tank clean may discern some remnants of a decal ??

Obviously been used for possum spotting !

« Last Edit: July 19, 2026, 07:48:23 AM by R »


Offline cardan

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Re: L'il Villiers
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2026, 06:06:31 AM »
Presumably the bike is in Australia?

The transfer on the right side of the tank looks to be Waratah, and the engine/gear unit seems to be Villiers 8D/9D... Waratah first had these bikes in mid-1937, and got them back after the war in mid-1946. Post war Excelsiors had the gear change through the tank, as did Waratahs that we know about.

Let's guess late 1930s, or 1946. Looking at the headlamp, I might lean towards 1946. But, as 33d6 has taught us, the numbers will tell!

Leon

Offline R

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Re: L'il Villiers
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2026, 08:26:36 AM »
Apparently its coming up for auction - NSW
These are some pre-auction publicity.
Hopefully all will be revealed.

I'd opt for prewar, not sure that external gear lever was ever postwar on Waratahs ?
Anything is possible after 80+ years though.


Offline cardan

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Re: L'il Villiers
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2026, 09:03:28 AM »
Just pre-war or just post-war is often a difficult call. There's a "1914" single cylinder, shaft drive FN current for sale here in South Australia - it's a lovely bike but I strongly suspect it's actually 1920-build. For FN the war was pretty clear cut: Liege was overrun, the FN factory was taken over for German war work and there were no motorcycles made from 1914 until 1920. The first bikes of 1920 were pretty-much 1914 models.

Not sure what happened at Excelsior, but they did manage to build 5000+ Welbikes during the war. The Excelsior/Waratah in question has some pre-war-ish features, like the gear change and the bolt-on rear subframe, but a hint of postwar with the headlamp and (maybe) the front fork. The other well-known Australian bike of the era was the Acme (much more Australian-made than the Waratah), and it used the Sackville pressed-steel fork pre-war and the Webb post-war, so maybe there is an element of that here. Some Acmes for the early war years (1940-ish) used the "modern" "bullet" Villiers headlamp rather than the old "tobacco tin".

So very hard indeed to spot differences between a 1939 model bike and the first bikes delivered in 1946, when getting stuff out the door was more important than adhering to a catalogue specification. The 1946 Waratahs and the 1946 Excelsiors may have differed: if there were left-over pre-war parts in the factory I know where I'd send them! Numbers will give more clues.

Leon

Offline R

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Re: L'il Villiers
« Reply #5 on: Today at 01:56:35 AM »
Hmmm, not a whole lot more info  !

https://australia.hibid.com/lot/312716531/original-waratah-barn-find--rare-sydney-made-bike

Lotta minor details are different to my 1945/46

Not sure its even worth that $500 opening bid.
But mabbe being 'rare' will make it worth it ?


Offline cardan

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Re: L'il Villiers
« Reply #6 on: Today at 09:03:50 AM »
Excellent: the new photos show that the headlamp is indeed the "prewar" VEC item with the flat back, so I can officially lean back towards "late pre war" rather than "early post war". It would be good to ask for engine and frame numbers: so far as I know the 9D number is on top of the gearbox (best viewed from the left side) pre war, then vertically on the back of the gearbox just post war, then easy to read on the right end of the gearbox from around 1947-8 or so. But I don't know where the frame number is on an Excelsior Universal/Waratah is in these years???

Leon