classic motorcycle forum

Hi, I know very little about bikes and so feel like an interloper here, but I am hoping someone will be kind enough to help me identify these two bikes.  They both belonged either to my father or grandfather.  To me they look just pre-war but I have no idea what they are.  I know my dad was very interested in dirt bikes and the Manx TT so they may have some connection to either.  Having looked at thousands of pics through this website I am favoring Douglas, but I can't find an exact match.  Any help gratefully received and apoligies if I am posting in the wrong place or breaking any etiquette.