oil drawn through from oil tank while parked

[simonrix]

Hello All,

My brother in law has a 1924 Truimph Model P in very origional condition. It however has two problems which I would like to sek advise on:

1. The cluth sticks or drags until it is warm. When selecting first gear  when cold the clutch does not disengage properly. After a few mk's the problem goes away. Is there a trick to solve this.

2. On the last ocasion we rode the bike the next morning there was a large puddle of oil under the bike (around 1 meter in diameter) that had been drawn through from the oil tank. I presume would would need to flush out the crankcases and refill with the correct amount of oil and secondly is a in line tap between the oil tank and the engine a good idea (apart from the obvious problem of forgetting the tap off!)

Thanks Simon

[33d6]

Hi Simon,
Nice to see someone having problems from actually riding their vintage bike.
Both problems are fairly common to vintage bikes regardless of make and have quite easy fixes.
Firstly it is routine vintage practice for the first start of the day to pull in the clutch lever and kick the bike over a few times to free off the clutch plates. They can get sticky for no apparent reason and if it is a vintage bike that can sit for a few weeks between rides it can be even more noticeable.
Secondly, if the clutch is in good order but still suffers from dragging it can be a small problem caused by excessive wear on the gearbox mainshaft thrust washer. This is a small plain bronze washer that controls endplay in the mainshaft and when worn out allows excessive endplay. When there is excessive endplay much of your clutch lever movement is wasted taking up the endplay before ever it starts to separate the clutch plates and the clutch will  drag.
Put in a new thrust washer (very easy to make) and the results are magical.
As for your oil problem, does your Model P have the semi automatic hand oil pump on the tank or an oil pump down on the engine? Or both? The only time I have encountered the problem you describe is with a mechanical pump on the timing chest and as modern oils will eventually seep through any vintage pump no matter how good it is I now fit a tap to the oil line. Don't  worry about forgetting to turn the oil on before going for a ride. You won't forget. How many times have you forgotten to put your trousers on before leaving the house? Forgetting to turn the oil on is just as embarrassing. You won't forget.
Happy riding, Bob
PS, now for the cheeky bit. The Model P was introduced for the 1925 season. No 1924 models.

[simonrix]

Hello Bob,

Thanks for the reply.

The bike has an oil pump on the tank. As far as I know there is no oil pump on the engine. I will check tonight as I am going down to work on my Ariel at his workshop.

On the model issue. I will check. I thought it was a 24 model P. He has the origional purchase papers. I will check them and get the engine and chassis numbers. I tried to attached a picture of the bike taken at a recient rally (with my 27 Ariel is in the background) so you could look at the bike but I could not as the attachment is larger than 100K. I there a simple way of solving this?

On a different topic, do you know what is the best modern oil to use for the wet clutch on the Truimph.

By the way, as it turns out I have my Ariel's gearbox in pieces and am doing wxactly what you describe (lucky my brother in law is a better mechanic than I am!)

Thanks Simon

[VintageBike]

Simon,

email me the picture and I will post it for you.  If it's a nice picture, I'll put it in the site gallery too.

Regards

Nigel Wynne
www.vintagebike.co.uk

[simonrix]

Hello Bob,

We are only the second owner. The origional purchase paper dated 22nd September 1924, Pretoria, South Africa only states 4hp. The engine number is 43788, the chassis number is 339387.

I suspect that the bike may be a model SD but lets see.

I cannot remember why we thought it was a model P.

Regards Simon

[VintageBike]

Here you go Simon.  Once we're sure what model it is, I'll add it to the gallery - and yes I@d love some pics of your other bikes.


http://www.vintagebike.co.uk/YaBBAttach/Truimph-modelP-1924-small.jpg

Cheers

Nigel.

[33d6]

Hello Simon,
Thats a very nice bike you have there, if I was riding that I'd have a big silly grin all over my face every time I got on it.
 As far as identification goes, Peter C who appears here can give precise detail. I'm not that much of a Triumph man myself, nor have I worked on that precise Triumph oil pump set up but they are all the same in general principle Imagine a bicycle pump with a simple non-return valve, a little spring loaded ball springs to mind plus possibly some sort of anti-siphoning device also.
I have the Villiers Autolube system on my Radco and its anti siphoning device consists entirely of an air leak at the right place. A little pinhole which if blocked allows all the oil to siphon from the oil tank directly into the crankcase as has happened with the Triumph. Idiot simple but very worrying the first time it happens to you.
My feeling is the Triumph survival rate is so high you will quickly meet other other owners of this model who will give you all the tips and tricks necessary for pain free riding.
Lastly, you are making me envious with your question about what oil to use in the primary chain case. The vintage Triumph was a quality bike. My bikes are rather more downmarket and none of them have the luxury of a primary chain case. A guard to prevent muck getting everywhere is the best mine have. As it is I generally have a well oiled left boot. I can only dream of a nice clean properly oiled primary chain and a clean boot.
Cheers, Bob

[simonrix]

Hi Bob,

Yes the grin is present although I must say I prefer my '27 Ariel, given I ride in Africa,  as the brakes work a lot better!

I do not find a Peter C in the member list, this the correct name? I would be quite keen to finaly identify the bike.

Simon

[33d6]

Hi Simon,
If you look for the article referring to a  1913 Triumph two-stroke in the "Wanted Bikes" section of the site you will see Peter C answered the query and gave his e-mail address.
He is the man you want to confirm the identity/date/model of the bike.
Cheers, Bob

[simonrix]

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the tip. By chance I had sent him an email about something else. I will ask him to help identify the bike.

Regards Simon