Villiers engine model T info....

[Guille]

Hello,

I have a Monet-Goyon ZSC of 1927, but I donīt find Info of this engine, engine number T 1248.

Can someone help me?

regards of Spain

Guille

[33d6]

Hello Guille,
Your engine is a 57.15mm bore x 67mm stroke 172cc Sports made by Villiers from 1924 to 1932. The T prefix denotes it has ordinary 'petroil' lubrication and not the Villiers Autolube system.
It shares many parts in common with the rest of the Villiers range except for the piston which can be difficult to find. Pistons for the other 172 Villiers engines of the period, the Super Sports and Brooklands are not interchangeable with yours.
Information is easily found, BMS, www.brucemainsmith.com have a good selection of Villiers literature and general information can also be found in early editions of 'The Villiers Engine' by B E Browning and 'The Book of the Villiers Engine' by Cyril Grange.
Cheers,

[Guille]

Hello Guille,
Your engine is a 57.15mm bore x 67mm stroke 172cc Sports made by Villiers from 1924 to 1932. The T prefix denotes it has ordinary 'petroil' lubrication and not the Villiers Autolube system.
It shares many parts in common with the rest of the Villiers range except for the piston which can be difficult to find. Pistons for the other 172 Villiers engines of the period, the Super Sports and Brooklands are not interchangeable with yours.
Information is easily found, BMS, www.brucemainsmith.com have a good selection of Villiers literature and general information can also be found in early editions of 'The Villiers Engine' by B E Browning and 'The Book of the Villiers Engine' by Cyril Grange.
Cheers,

Hello,
Thanks for the info,
the oil system itīs by handpump?
In the front of cylinder have a oil tube....
How itīs the oil circuite in this engine?
Here photos of the cylinder clean...





regards
Guille

[33d6]

Hi Guille,
That is a cylinder from the TL Autolube version of your motor. It is identical to the original T type cylinder except it has that hole drilled for the Villiers Autolube system. All you need to do is keep it plugged up as it is already and it will be fine.

There is no hand pump involved. This type of Villiers engine never used a handpump system. It either ran on a 'petroil' mixture or had the Villiers automatic lubrication system fitted.

The Villiers automatic lubrication system worked well when in good condition but the slightest air leak in the sytem stopped it working and wrecking the engine. Very few with a working sytem have survived as most developed an air leak sooner or later. Petroil is easier and more reliable.
Cheers,   

[Guille]

Hello,
I want use this engine to made a racer machine, itīs possible this engine to made a racer machine?
It was used in racers machines?
regards
Guille

[33d6]

This engine was never made to be a racer and will not make a good racer.
In the 1920's Villiers made three 175 engines, the Sport, (your engine), the Super Sport and the Brooklands. The Brooklands engine was the racer, the Super Sports was the sporting engine for road bikes and the Sport was the standard road engine. They are very different engines and the Sport cannot be upgraded to either Super Sport or Brooklands standard.
Your Monet Goyen will make a very good vintage road bike if you can get it running properly.
Cheers,

[Guille]

This engine was never made to be a racer and will not make a good racer.
In the 1920's Villiers made three 175 engines, the Sport, (your engine), the Super Sport and the Brooklands. The Brooklands engine was the racer, the Super Sports was the sporting engine for road bikes and the Sport was the standard road engine. They are very different engines and the Sport cannot be upgraded to either Super Sport or Brooklands standard.
Your Monet Goyen will make a very good vintage road bike if you can get it running properly.
Cheers,

Ok!

the engine of this bike is the sport engine?






Regards
Guille

[33d6]

Hi Guille,
Yes, that is the Sport engine the same as yours.  I know Monet Goyon raced and held world records in the 175cc class but they used the Super Sport engine.
Cheers,

[cardan]

There was an article in The Classic Motorcycle some years back which featured a Monet Goyen racer - a privateer I recall. I think it had "Oxford bag" exhausts. Very nice indeed. In fact even the "non-racer racer" pictured above is fuelling my two stroke urges. (I've been working on a 211cc 1914 Radco for a friend, and just got it going reasonably nicely. No power as such, but plenty of enjoyment purring along at 20 mph.)

Speaking of hot Villiers, was the Villiers "Brooklands" motor usually run on petrol, or something else?

Leon

[33d6]

Hi Leon,
Yes, "Oxford Bag" exhausts were the way to go as they were an early version of the expansion chamber as we know it today. They do make a difference.
Even the early 'coffeepot' transverse exhaust systems make a definite difference and its a sad thing for Villiers that although the factory always listed this type of exhaust system in their prewar parts list as best for their engines they became unfashionable and people wouldn't fit them. A few of us have taken this to heart and now fit  Villiers style exhausts rather than replicas of what the bike factories fitted and are happy with the results. We are learning old knowledge all over again and there are a few little tricks to it but I can assure you a 1920's primitive expansion chamber is far better than no expansion chamber at all.

Finally, can't help you with what fuel Villiers recommended for the Brooklands engine. As Villiers claimed to only sell the Brooklands engine for racing I suspect people using them tuned for whatever fuel they wanted to use.
Cheers,

[cardan]

Hi Guille,
The Monet & Goyen racer is featured in the Classic Motorcycle for May 1999. There is some history of earlier racers also, and the Villiers Sports motor is mentioned as the basis of the first racers in 1924.

The bike featured in the article is said to date from 1926 (seems early?), and has the Villiers Brooklands engine, with "Oxford Bags" as mentioned before. (On dit "haricots" en francais?). They are shown beautifully in this photo from the article - probably worth getting a copy. But the noise!

Leon

[cardan]

33d6, any idea how many Brooklands Villiers motors came to Australia? We had at least one in South Australia, in Excelsior cycle parts, which carried Harry Butler to an Australasian record of 63.16 mph over the flying mile on Sellicks Beach,  Jaunuary 1, 1930.
Not bad for a 175 cc two stroke on sand in 1930?

Notice the "straight through" exhausts.

Leon

[33d6]

I wish I did know how many Brooklands engines came to Australia 'cos I'd like to get my hands on one to try out myself. Its the one prewar sporting Villiers I've never seen in the flesh.
That Excelsior of Harry Butlers is a 1929 model. Excelsior only did the 'checkerboard' tank painting for that year. It's very stylish but labour intensive to apply so didn't last past that one season.
The Monet Goyon exhaust is interesting but is a half Oxford Bag. The full Oxford Bag exhaust is closed off at the end and has a short tail pipe coming out at right angles and running back to about the back of the crank case. I have a picture here but it's in a 1925 magazine that is too frail to muck about with on the copier. I also have a picture of the Excelsior entry in the 1925 UltraLightweight TT showing its Oxford bag style exhaust but with tailpipes that run back to just clear the gearbox. Sorry, its in a 1925 magazine also. Same problem. Being very keen on the Sport, Super Sport and Brooklands engines I've been collecting early magazines featuring them so have lots of piccies but they're almost impossible to share.
It seems Villiers had a reasonable idea that expansion chambers were beneficial but didn't follow it up.
Cheers,