Engine model? help req

[frankclock]

Hello from Australia
I have just purchased a 197 engine to put into my current 150 J15 James I have also got a four speed box to fit with it
other than the engine? number stamped on the front eng mount I cannot see what model it is 6E  8E??? ETC
Is there any other way to find what type it is
Also with the stuff I got an Excelsior fuel tank with a hand change gate through the middle of the tank
This is no use to me but finding out what it is off would be helpfull
any help would be great
thanks
FRANK

[33d6]

Hi Frank,
Just tell us the engine number and all will be revealed (probably).
 
What part of Godzone do you live in?

Your Excelsior tank is from a 46-49 model fitted with the 122cc 9D engine. Their first post war model which got them going again in the immediate post war turmoil.

Cheers,

[frankclock]

MY ENGINE NUMBER IS 946  6289
i live  wOLLONGONG nsw

thanks for the info on the tank
Do you live by any chance in this sunshine country?

[R]

This engine number list puts it as a 1950 or 51 Francis Barnett 6E

http://www.hulsmannmotor.nl/Villiers_Motornummers.html

[33d6]

Hi Frank,

Yes, 'R' is spot on. Your engine is an ex-Francis Barnett 6E. It's no different mechanically from any other 6E. Villiers just had their own way of numbering their engines so they knew who they sold them to.

And "yes" to the other question but I'm from further south, deep in AFL territory.

Finally, you mention you have a four speed box.  Technically these were never fitted to the 6E but I've seen it done. Apparently not quite as simple as expected but easy enough according to those who have done it.
Cheers,
 

[frankclock]

thanks for the info again
I have a 1955 150cc cadet which I purchased from an auction house a couple of years ago in Adelaide,
it still has the sellers name written on number  plate it say HUBBARDs Adelaide

This model was the first bike I ever owned when I lived in UK & I still have the rec from the shop I got it from in 1962

So can you see a problem fitting the 4 speed into the J15  frame or do you know someone I can talk to regarding fitting
As you can see I found more about the fuel tank, Do you know anyone who would be interested?

all the best
FRANK

[murdo]

Good luck with your project Frank.
I'm in northern NSW.

[33d6]

Hi Frank,
Villiers claimed all their postwar engines were interchangeable. That the engine mounts on all were identical. This was regardless of whether they were fitted with a three or four speed gearbox.

That may be true but you are proposing to make up a power unit different from anything the factory ever did even though it is all Villiers parts. Theoretically it should be okay but you may find the odd snag. I don't know who you could talk to. I saw the same conversion at a rally years ago and chatted to the owner but can't remember the detail.

Whatever the case, even if the engines are interchangeable, the exhaust system, the fuel lines and probably the rear sprocket are not.

I can well understand you wanting give your James a bit more punch. If you live in Wollongong you have to climb some hefty hills to get out but frankly you'd be better of hunting for the rest of the Francis Barnett. Those early swing arm Fanny Bees are good bikes. I have a 6E powered '51 James Captain de luxe and will cheerfully admit the equivalent Fanny Bees of the same era are much better.   Think about it.

Cheers,

[frankclock]

Thanks again for the reply
I only thought I would try this idea due to the other bike turning up

after a bit of looking the frame is a NORMAN & I am unsure what has been done to it
there have been different brackets welded on & the frame has been bent to give a steeper steering angle as well the rear shocks are not correct & it seems beyond hope for me to restore but it was never my intention I just thought the motor change would be different
I have had many 2 strokes including 4 SCOTTS & at the moment I have a Suzuki RG 500 parked next to my James  so the hills are no problem on a square 4 cylinder
2 stroke!!!
I will just keep plodding on & see if the conversion works out
I will keep you informed

[R]

after a bit of looking the frame is a NORMAN & I am unsure what has been done to it
there have been different brackets welded on & the frame has been bent to give a steeper steering angle as well the rear shocks are not correct

That steeper steering head angle may be an indication that it has beem modified with trials slow speed stuff in mind.
Don Morley describes doing that to a pukka trials model BSA after studying a factory bike, and "his father nearly went spare at the sight", but apparently it does vastly improve the slow speed steering.