B31 Values

[john11668]

Hi  Folks
Am new to the forum and assisting a friend with the purchase of a B31.
It is not a Barn find really,  but has been stored for just over ten years  in a barn. It is the maroon colour!
Carefully kept covered with motorcycle cover and dust sheets , looks pretty  clean  and a good polish would  make it look good again.
It seems it was built by a well known restorer , but not from a single bike  hence when registered it was given an age related plate. The "log book" is the V5 style

It is said to have won top award  at a national show,  yet clearly some work will be required to bring it back to concourse condition.
I presume the battery is shot,  not sure about tyres , and of course all fluids will need replacing . And fuel will be gummy by now of course!
No reason to suspect that it wont start with a day or so of work.

I can of course look around at the asking prices  on the net but my question is as follows :-
How would  valuation differ between an original bike restored to concourse  condition, and one which is rebuilt to concourse condition from a couple of donor machines.

I am reluctant to post pictures  at this stage for fear of identifying the location, and risking gazumping. but will be happy to do so when a deal is agreed

[R]

Without seeing pics or even examining the bike closely in person, it will probably be impossible for us to comment on the accuracy of any restoration, in concours condition or otherwise.

If the folks involved really knew their stuff, and used same year donor bikes, the finished result could/should be indistinguishable from a factory turned out bike. If they just used parts willy nilly from other year bikes, then it could be a 'bitza' of the first order - and look it. You'll have to assess this.

Bikes that have been standing for ten years should be priced/valued accordingly, as you mention, somewhere below a currently ridden and maintained bike. If the compression or sparks or fuel system or even brakes and cables stick or no longer function, this could range anywhere from a quick service to a full stripdown - how long is a piece of string ? Do they offer any warranty on the quality of the rebuild ?  Someone here purchased a nice RedHunter, and it ground to a halt because an oil seal had been omitted, somewhere near the oil pump !  The joys of buying non-running bikes ?
Happyhorsetrading, have fun !

[mini-me]

I'll give you £100.

As a point of pedantic nit picking.

no bike ever won a station platform competition.

Its a concours d'elegance competition not a concourse.

Any old bike wins these days, I have awall full of prizes given because I was often the only prewar bike that turned up, winner in a class of one. 80% of the judges have no idea as it is.

I wouldn't attach a lot of significance or value to it.
Its worth whatever you are willing to pay for it. Or as I tell those people  who comment how much my bike must be worth, its 30p a kilo or what ever scrap fetches today.

good luck, B31 are a nice bike

[Rex]

You'd have to ask why a "professionally restored" bike would be barn-stored for ten years, though just because it has an age-related plate doesn't mean it was never a bike "in one piece"; I had a T100SS which was also tagged with the "built from parts" on the V5C. I think it something the DVLA did back then to cover themselves when issuing an age-related plate.
Funny thing about B31s is the values don't seem to vary that much between useable and needing a rebuild. I was watching two on Ebay two weeks ago; one was a late incomplete pile of parts brought in from Spain and missing most of the small parts, brackets, pegs, clock etc and the other an early rigid with no lights, ally guards and clearly had been a field bike, but was allegedly running two years ago. Both went for around the £1500 mark, but it's not unusual to see runners go for not that much (relatively speaking) more.
Don't want to sound cynical but "restored and never used" sets the old alarm bells ringing, but if it does polish up well someone will surely buy it regardless.

[mini-me]

Back in the days when an old bike was just an old bike,  ie      "give me 10 bob for it son and push it away" or " for gods sake take that junk away please"  I mixed and matched all sorts of stuff just to get a rideable bike.

If I did not have a logbook, or just a reg no I could take it to the old LCC offices, a bloke would come out and look at it, check for insurance, and I'd pay the tax and get a number matching logbook

If I had a logbook I could build a bike to suit it,  used spares were in cheap abundance in those days

I often wonder how many of my old wrecks, are now out there,cherished money pits, with some poor soul agonising over what does not match the year spec.

Usually hoping it will turn out to be some factory special.

You could work wonders with a set of number stamps; nothing illegal, just working the system.

I once had a lovely B31, one of the rare ones with alternator, I sold it for £40 in the early 1970s and rode it London to Bedford for the buyer.

The world of old bikes is truly baffling these days.

It seems it was built by a well known restorer

I wonder who? [PM me if you like] I was once a " a well known restorer"  my opinion of some of the other  " a well known restorer"  and their work is too obscene for here.

I never did a B31 though, they were not worth the expense at the time. I never took on a bike that was not complete to start with.

[john11668]

It seems it was built /rebuilt,  or whatever, by a guy called Phil cotton and bought ten years ago as a present.
The intended recipient unfortunately  never got the chance to use it.
I have known the vendor personally for about twenty years and the existence of this bike was never discussed until recently.

The vendor is  a man of the highest integrity who I would trust implicitly.
He is hoping to get what he paid for it ten years ago  possibly with a dash of appreciation.  He did the due dilligence bit  before he bought it and I believe he paid £2K.

All the above reservations noted , but presuming the bike is genuine , would it it have appreciated in the last ten years?

[mini-me]

If you can get it for 2k its probably a prospect.

apreciation? No.

If you want an investment, diamonds or property are good. Myself I go for old watches.

Invesment motorcycles are the overated stuff like Brough Vincents etc, bikes that are seldom ridden by the buyers.

As I keep saying, its just an OLD BIKE,  a BSA B31 its nothing special  you never get back what you spend on them, not ever. more so if you paid to have it done.

If you like it and can afford it buy it; the value will be in the number of flies caught in your teeth from the grin you get while riding.

In my own biased view, this obcession with values has truly f***ed up the pleasure of riding old bikes, and will eventually kill it all off because the youngsters will be priced out.

I think Phil Cotton was the Gold Star bloke in East Anglia? if so he knew his stuff.


Of course if you have a Phil Cotton B31 with Gold Star tune and innards thats another matter.

put up some photos, use photo editing to blank the background if it worries you, no bike built from parts can be described as "genuine "these days,it might not bother you till you try to sell again.

[john11668]

It seems this company restored the bike
 https://www.transportweb.com/organisations/9101-phil-cotton-classic-motorcycles
I believe the principal is now retired

Try these pics

[mini-me]

Looks Ok, yes Phil Cotton was an engineer.

For some reason I had assumed you were talking about a swinging arm B31.
Can't say if it makes a difference in value.

From my point of view the tank panels should have been chromed for a " Concours" standard of restoration.

Nice bike, forget investment value, its not special, nor rare, its worth what you can afford to pay.
I'd say go for it if you want it.