Hoping for help to identify my grandfathers motorcycles

[Brick2]

Hello

I have been passed a couple of photos recently, not the best quality unfortunately, one whilst in the RAF(1941) and one we believe to be earlier. I never met my grandfather and being keen on motorcycles myself would be over the moon if the makes/models could be identified.

The first is a picture of my grandfather as a despatch rider in Hull take in March 1941. Motorcycle registration PMT212.

I am by no means an expert. From what I can tell;
- Hand gear change
- Visible Cylinder sloping forward
- Girder front suspension
- Exhaust has the wider silencer and 'fishtail' at the end


The second picture we do not know when taken but understand it is before the war.

The registration UJ8184. UJ is a Salop designation registered between June 1932 and 1937.

Looks to be a similar motorcycle but with a cylinderical exhaust. The writing on the rear is interesting but we cannot make it out

Appear to start with 'R' then two letters? Then 'J' and 5/6 more letters? R__J_____?

Any help much appreciated.

Thanks very much,

Ben

[cardan]

Hi Ben,

Two interesting lightweights from the 1930s. The top bike is Panther, and the lower is New Imperial. I suppose both are 250s or there-abouts. No doubt thumbing through photos on the interweb will deliver an exact indentification. The New Imperials from this period were interesting in that the engine/gearbox was unit construction.

Cheers

Leon

[L.A.B.]

Yes, a Panther (Model 20?) http://www.artvalue.com/auctionresult--panther-vehicles-1938-red-panther-model-20-2722867.htm


And a New Imperial.

[mini-me]

Looks like one of the Pride and Clarke 250 Panthers which might well be an impressed bike from the begining of the war.

You will have better luck  chasing one of those than the New Imperial.

The little Panther was scorned for years by the snobs of the VMCC, who labelled it grey porridge, which is typical of the VMCC crew in the 1970s especially, but they were not a bad little bike, probably the cheapest 250 on the market, very cost cut to the bone, and all were sold by Pride and Clarke in London who I think bought the entire output of P&M; they'd go on for ever, over 100mpg, and took an amazing amount of abuse and neglect from men whose only transport they were back then.

[Brick2]

Thank you all for taking the time to have a look.

Very interesting and invaluable information that has given me a great prod in the right direction!

Thanks,

Ben

[RichP]

The 'PMT' block of Middlesex registrations is one that was reserved for Government vehicles and issued around August 1939.

Most of the vehicles which were known as 'civilian impressed' to differentiate them from official contracts were bought from dealer or factory stocks. That this Panther received a Government plate indicates that it must have been new at the time.

I don't think there is much known about the Air Ministry taking on civilian vehicles. War Department (army) records are more complete.

Is your Grandfather in full uniform ? I'd love to see a copy of the complete photo.