Villiers 172cc sport

[Ralf89]

Dear Forum members,
at first I have to introduce myself:
My name is Ralf and I am from Austria.
Many thank`s to the admins for adding me to this forum!
Now to my question:
I have 2 Villiers 172cc sports engines. The crankcase from one of these 2 engines is stamped with the letter "T", which as I found out means that this is the sports engine for petroil lubrication. But on this "T"-crankcase are also the lubrication holes for the main bearings. The cylinder also has the oil connection port between the two exhaust ports.
Are the lubrication holes in the crankcase and the oil connection port on the cylinder correct for the "T"-type sports engine?
If yes, what are the differences to the "TL"-type sports engine with AutoLube-system?
Where is on the"TL"-type sports engine the connection port for the crankcase-pressure tube located, which is necessary for the Autolube-system?
Sorry for my midding english, I hope my text is understandable.

Many thank`s in Advance!
kind Regards

Ralf

[Rex]

The Aussies will be along soon enough to answer your questions in detail, but there's quite a lot of info on this forum if you do a search.

[TGR90B]

I've never heard of autolube on a Villiers engine, but I'm not into pre war engines.

[33d6]

Hi Ralf,
Some answers are easy, others not.
First, all Sport crankcases were drilled for oil ways no matter what lubrication system was used. Autolube or petroil. I think it was just easier for the factory to make the one set of crankcases for both types.
They did not do this with any other part for the petroil engine. Not the crankshafts nor the cylinder nor the main bearing bushes.
Second, all parts of both types are freely interchangeable so you can happily run an Autolube cylinder on a petroil crankcase but only with petroil lubrication.
Third, these engines have been around for ninety years or so. Owners assemble what ever parts they can find. This doesn’t matter if you use the petroil system but if you want to try the Autolube system you must pull the whole engine apart plus remove the main bearing bushes and check everything to make sure you have all the necessary drilled parts.
Finally, if only one engine is stamped with a “T” , what is stamped on the other?

[Ralf89]

At first thank you very much for your answer!
That's very interesting and helpful for me.
Unfortunately the crankcase of the other sports engine was welded on exact this area, where normally the letter and engine number is stamped in, so it is impossible to identify the letter and number.
Thanks
Ralf

[Ralf89]

Is it possible do find out when a Villiers engine (in this case my 172cc sports) was produced?
Maybe with the engine number?
As far as I know the 172cc sports engine was built from 1924 to 1932 (or so). So it would be very interesting for me to know the dathe year of production.
Many thank's in Advance
Regards

[33d6]

Hi Ralf,
No, it is not possible to say exactly what year your Sport engines were made. There were no annual changes. Obviously the earlier engines had a lower number than later engines but we never know the exact year. Villiers were always careful not to give out that information. It was poor business practice. It didn't matter anyway as the basic engine was the same from start to finish, 1924-32 as you wrote above.

What bike are these engines from?

[Ralf89]

Thank's for the answers.
My engine number is T 143* (the last one is *, because i don't want to post my correct engine number on the internet).

This engine belongs to a motorcycle from the almost unknown austrian brand D.S.H. This motorcycle was produced from 1924 to 1928 without any changes so it is impossible to find out the correct date of production (there is also no frame number on the frame). My last hope was the engine number.

[R]

Something like this, or this. ?
Neither of which is a 172cc engine...

https://cybermotorcycle.com/gallery/classics-d/images/DSH-1926-350cc-Villiers-GJK.jpg

https://www.yesterdays.nl/site/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/DSH-1925-1.jpg

Whereas this one is
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1a/e3/56/1ae356c432601f91aa8b93b0aafb7cc8.jpg

It seems there was a halt in production in 1928, so it should be easy to spot if yours is before or after this ?

[33d6]

Two of those bikes have the 172cc Sport engine. I believe their exhaust systems to also be the proper Villiers factory exhaust for the Sport engine. Most English motorcycle makers wouldn’t use the Villiers exhaust because they weren’t fashionable but they work much better than the “fashionable” ones.
With such a low number it’s obvious Ralf’s engine is an early  production. Sport numbers were up around 8000 by 1930.
Villiers didn’t make their own carburettors until 1926 so theoretically a pre-1926 Sport should have something else fitted but as it was common practice to retro fit a Villiers carb it isn’t a good indicator.
The DSH looks like a good bike to tackle those Alpine passes. Being a low revving torquey engine they’re great hill climbers. I’d love to have a go with one.
Cheers

[Ralf89]

Many thank's for the answers!
This forum is really great!
My engine has a brass Bing carburettor, so that would fit to an pre 1926 engine. But as you say, it is also very plausible that someone changed the carburettor in the last 90 years.
Thank's to all!

[Ralf89]

Is it true that all 172cc sports engines had steel pistons?
Because my engine has an aluminium piston. Furthermore both of my engines has conrods which are marked with "VIII C"
Is this ok, or a part mix?
Thank's
Ralf

[33d6]

Yes Ralf, original Sport pistons were made of cast iron. Aluminium replacement pistons are also common and much preferred. They make for a much happier engine which revs up much more willingly with greatly reduced vibration. Unfortunately they are getting harder to find nowadays so be careful of yours.
Also, the MkVIIIC conrod is standard. That is as it should be.
I would suggest you buy a copy of Villiers Spare Parts List No22 from the VMCC. It makes life much easier.