Can anyone ID this bike

[scottp1111]

Good morning all,

I purchased this bike around 15 years ago from an elderly lady who stated her husband rode this bike to work everyday for years. They were from overseas and she stated they brought it over with them. It has a Villiers engine marked possibly 1939. I have been offered amazing amounts of money for this bike but no one has ever knew what make it was. It has good compression the engine is no locked up I am considering a full restoration. Please help me figure out who make this bike. Excelsior? Chell ? James ? im not sure so Im turning to friends in this community to help.

Thanks,

Scott

[R]

Thats the Famous James, British, a 125cc ML model with Villiers engine.
A 125cc wartime model that was carried on as the ML after the war.
War time use had it wrapped in a cage, that could be parachuted at a drop zone as freight.

http://www.roncobb.com/Graphics/jamesML-1LOGO.JPG
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4075/4899604822_bf9ccb0eb5_b.jpg
http://analienearthling.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/1946-james.jpg

How much is an 'amazing' amount ?
They are relatively common, as were made in quite large numbers,
and a lot of them survive today.
Quite collectible, although a bit small for serious riding.

[scottp1111]

Thank you sir for providing me with the bikes amazing history. How much do you think it's worth? I was offered $5k last week for it , turned it down b/c I don't wanna sell. Is it worth restoration? Can I find parts? I appreciate your time


Scott

[Rex]

$5000? Snap his hand off.... and go and buy something you can actually ride on 21st century roads. A utility 125 is pain rather than pleasure.

[scottp1111]

Yeah,

I don't think I wanna part with it. We have plenty of Harley's and bikes to ride and enjoy im looking at the piece of history. Would it appreciate as time goes on ? Whats your opinion? Is it worth a small restoration just for collecting purposes?

[scottp1111]

Also where can parts be found to get this thing running?

[Rex]

If you mean engine parts then Google Villiers, I think there's a few specialists still going. As for cycle parts etc then Ebay or owners club is about all.
As to a resto...if it's for your own pleasure rather than with an eye on selling it on, then yeah, why not?

[33d6]

It's a very simple restoration. Engine spares can be bought from Villiers Services. Their website is http://villiersservices.co.uk They can be erratic at times but have never failed to finally come through for any postwar Villiers part for me.
Stuff like exhaust systems are advertised on eBay but yours looks to be all there so no drama.
There are several ML enthusiasts in the US who make various parts but except for the headlight you seem to have all the bits like the toolbox that are usually missing.
The 539 prefix on the engine number shows it is a 9D delivered to James sometime in the 1946-48 period and if you give the frame number I may be able to date it down to which year.
The best James website is www.simplywizard.co.uk
Finally, would you have the phone number of person who offered you the $5K? I've been looking for a buyer like that all my life.

[scottp1111]

33D6,

As far as his phone number , I can get that too you on here via PM in the next couple of days as I make contact with our mutual friend to retrieve the number.

The bike, well all the numbers  I could get I posted in those pictures above. I cant find anything on the frame whatsoever. I was under the impression it was a 1939 is that not factual? I am going to add another picture that might help, the only thing I could find. Its hardly clear what the stamps on the frame are. This pic should help you some. What do you suspect it it would cost round about to get this rig running. Compression is good , no Fire on the plug though. Carb is intact new airfilter new plug new tank. Im gonna go ahead and restore for our personal keep sake.

[33d6]

Hi again Scott,

Your bike definitely is not a 1939 model. Everything about it screams 1946 or so. Although James made a bike using this engine from 1936 to 1939 this is not one of them.

In 1943 James started making a Military Lightweight capable of being dropped with the Airborne Forces to improve mobility when they hit the ground. This bike was based on the prewar model but was modified for Airborne use. When the war finished James kept making it but civilianized it and over time moved it further and further away from the original military version. They finally dropped it when Villiers no longer made the 9D engine.

I think your bike is one of the early civilian models from 1946 for the following reasons. Firstly the engine number is postwar. It is definitely not a prewar or military engine number. Secondly I can see traces of Maroon paint underneath the current blue DIY home  paint job. James were very proud their ML had gone to war with the Airborne so from 1946 painted their bikes in Airborne regimental colours, maroon with skyblue trimmings. Thirdly that clumsy cylindrical tool box beside the saddle is an original military fitting. It is the real deal. James soon dropped that on the civilian version and fitted a much neater standard toolbox back out of the way on the rear mudguard stays. Only the early civilian models had the army type toolbox. To me all the above spells out 1946 and we haven't even mentioned thre frame number.

Restoration costs depend entirely on your own skills. If you are a cheque book restorer and pay someone to do it for you then the sky's the limit. Do it yourself and it shouldn't cost much at all. From your description all it needs to get it running is a new coil and condenser, readily available off eBay. The rest is just a running restoration as and when you want.
Cheers,

[scottp1111]

Wow,

You sure have been a life saver for me on this project. I appreciate all your advice and knowledge in this topic. I am going to do a self restore, I have a friend who owns a body shop that can do all the painting and body work, I can do all the engine work and other items. I am going to attack this project head on and I will keep you posted on the progress once I start. Probably will post pictures as I go on here.

I am working to get you that phone number for that man from Louisiana about the bikes. He is a serious bike enthusiast. I will begin the tear down sometime soon and start sanding some of that old paint off and try to locate some frame information to provide to you.

Sincerely,

Scott

[murdo]

Good to see another oldie survive. Enjoy your project Scott.

[scottp1111]

So I contacted Villiers services and they quoted me $1020 USD to completly overhaul the engine inside and out with all new parts. I am going to take that first step very soon and while the engine is sent off for overhaul I will begin work on the frame. Is that price reasonable for this work. Currently it is not getting fire to the plug. Points? I am under the impression that all those items will be changed and the engine sent in 100% working order back to me.

[33d6]

Given all the complication that your quote is in US$ and I don't know what that is in English money and the engine has to go back and forth across the Atlantic, etc, etc, I wouldn't have a clue about what is "reasonable" in such circumstances. I'd just be delighted that there is a firm that can do the job.
What I do know is that Villiers Services are up there with the best for doing such work. Where else do you go for getting new spares for a 70 odd year old engine. Plus they will do the primary transmission, clutch, gearbox, kick starter and so on.  You will get back a totally renovated power unit ready to drop in and ride away.
I have a number of ancient Villiers powered bikes. Some younger, most older than yours. Not once have Villiers Services not been able to supply me with the parts I've requested from them. Sometimes they've been amazingly fast and sometimes they've driven me nutty but not once, ever, have they not eventually come up with what I wanted. So, a quirky firm to deal with but one that has always in the end done exactly what they said they would.
Cheers,

[Bomber]

Really glad to hear that!