Albion gearboxes

[safe history man]

Hi i am currently building an Excelsior Scout 1934 it is fitted with a villiers Mk14A air cooled 249cc engine and a Albion 3 speed hand change gearbox with the serial no RN305 AND A PATENT NUMBER 330164 thing is the gearbox is in bits and i need a diagram or a parts manual so i can see if all the parts are there is there anyone out there that knows a bit about Albion Gearboxes

[33d6]

Are you sure it's a three speed box? It looks remarkably like a four speed.

Can probably help either way. Where do you live?

Cheers,

[safe history man]

hi the only reason i thought it was a 3 speed was from the original excelsior literature showed the scout fitted with a 3 speed would you be able to tell if I posted a picture of the internals by the way I live all the way up in Northumberland any help would be much appreciated
regards

[R]

The internals will soon show if its a 3 sp or 4 sp.
3 pairs of gears is 3, 4 pairs is 4....
It does look 4 speedish...

[john.k]

Its an EJ three speed,fitted to many lightweights of the era.It will have a single plate clutch of very simple design.These boxes have no bushing between the mainshaft and sprocket gear,in common with the super h/wt Sturmey fitted to some SS100s.Internally,the box is a near exact copy in miniture of the Sturmey Archer LS box,and quite well made[IMHO].Incidentally ,an exact copy of this box was made in Australia by the Diecut sprocket company,but completely bare of any markings.Usually exposed to a maximum of abuse along with the Villiers motor by the persons who typically owned these cheap bikes.Regards John.

[33d6]

I would disagree with that John. I think we will find this is an R series medium weight four speed box of which many later foot change versions ended up in a variety of Royal Enfield.
Excelsior weren't exactly obsessed with building precisely to catalogue in the early thirties. I have an equally NQR (not quite right) model. Surviving in tough times had a higher priority. I have no problem with this bike having a non catalogue box.
Anyway, R is right. A quick count of the gear pairs will resolve the issue.

Cheers,

[safe history man]

thanks to everyone for their input I have striped the box and had it cleaned but am having difficultly putting it back together since I come out of hospital after 13 months i have great problems remembering things its either the medication or old age never mind back to important things here are some pics of the Albion gearbox as fitted to the EXCELSIOR Scout 1934 as you say I have seen 3 models of this bike and all had different boxes fitted it looks to be all here but I always find gearboxes a black art (but thats me what do you think lads 3 or 4 speed once again thanks for your help

[R]

4 speed.
If you pull the layshaft back into line with the mainshaft,
so its not sticking out past the sprocket, it will look more conventional.

I was surpised to see how useless the diagrams for the Albion are,
not one of them shows a decent view of the gears on their shafts.

The gearpairs - on a later 4 sp box, are listed as (from sprocket to kickstart side)
mainshaft    31t 25t 21t 17t
layshaft       17t 23t 27t 31t

Yours would be a similar count, if not identical.
Is there a gear under the shifter arm there on your pic ?  A  21 t on the mainshaft ...

I have a (later) 4 speed dismantled somewhere, could snap a pic if it comes to that.
The shifter arm arrangments may be similar enough to assist.
Cheers.

[safe history man]

thanks R thats a great help just got the shafts and gears installed back in the casing the only thing know is the clutch do you know what rods control the actuating arm to move the clutch as it is missing and clutch is unasembled at the moment needs corks and bearings will have to get some wine drank over the Xmas to make some corks (only joking) cheers for the info on the 4 speed what is the model number on the 4 speed ?
regards Tom