Villiers Type 3/2 Carb

[merry1]

Hi, I am new to the site so greetings & Happy New Year to all.
I am looking for a Villiers Type 3/2 Carburettor for a 1945 WD Royal Enfield Flying Flea. It was only fitted to the War time production so as to fit a large choke & air filter, civilian models had the Amal Carb. fitted post war, which mine had when i got the bike. Is there any reason why this Carb.was fitted? I think I have attached a file of a 3/2. Any help would be appreciated.
I can also be reached at ramerry@netspace.net.au
regards
Richard
Geelong Australia

[33d6]

Hi Richard,
The WD Royal Enfield 'Flying Flea' used the same carb as the James ML (Military Lightweight) "Clockwork Mouse'. Both were 125cc two-strokes and the Services believed it simpler to use a common carb than a different carb on each bike. They then only had to keep one lot of spares in stock.
My experience is only with the 3/1 carb as used on the James. I'd never heard of a 3/2 until now. There can't be much difference between them as that same illustration for your 3/2 is used for the James ML 3/1 carb.
Villiers carb spares are reasonably easy to find. Both Villiers Services ( www.villiersservices.co.uk ) and Villiersparts ( www.villiersparts.co.uk ) can help with 3/1 stuff. You will see Villiers Parts offers a 3/1 carb exchange service but you have to have the tatty remains of one to exchange first.
The Villiers 3/1 carb was used on their 9D engine up until 1949 and is very clearly marked 3/1. They still often turn up at swap meets and on ebay.
They are a very easy carb to tune and don't clog up with muck so readily as does a small Amal.
Cheers,

[merry1]

Hi thanks for the reply, I thought that the 3/1 might be the same as the 3/2 looking at it & as you say they are easier to find.
The actual maintenance manual does state a 3/2 & does state a jet size of No.1 &  needle taper of 2 1/2% . I am wondering if this is the same size of a 3/1 seeing that the James ML is a Villiers engine & the Flea is a Royal Enfield Engine. I have attached the  page from the maintenance manual.
Regards
Richard

[merry1]

Hi, I might have solved the puzzle, The difference is between 3/1 & 3/2 it is needle & jet size answer was in the book Famous James. 3/1 has a Jet size No. 3 & a Needle No. 3 . I have attached the page from the book.
Regards
Richard

[33d6]

Hi Richard,
Yes, the jet and needle size for the James are different. The 3/1 on the James uses a No 3 jet and a 3 needle.

Forget the % bit on the needle number. The size numbers on all Villiers needles relates to the % of taper it has and all Villiers needles are very faintly marked with their size but never with the % sign so everyone just talks numbers without the % bit. The jet is clearly marked with its relevant number. No problem there. Enfield adding the % sign was just them being a bit snarky at having to use a competitors carby.
You should have no real problem getting both the right size jet and needle. Villiers made many types of engine all using variations of the same few basic carburettors so the range of needles and jets is vast.
The thing to really take note of when they write of adjusting the mixture in Para 46 is the last sentence where they advise riding at least three to five miles before deciding if the mixture is correct or not. These little two-strokes are very cold blooded and take a lot of warming up to working temperature. Remember it has a cast iron cylinder, not an alloy one like modern bikes and it takes a lot longer to warm up. Conversely it takes a lot longer to cool down once hot so when you fang it round the Great Ocean Road it will take at least two beers to cool down at the Wye River pub.

One final thing. Villiers needles come in different lengths to suit the different size of carby but Villiers in their wisdom made them all the same diameter and numbered them all in an identical fashion. It is VERY easy to install a longer needle from a larger carb in your 3/2 believing you have the right one. This is just another one of those jolly British engineering jokes they did so well. 
Cheers, 

[Rex]

They knew what they were doing in those days.
Apart from that it meant commonality of jets and slides.

[merry1]

Hi, thanks to all for your help but as to fanging it around the Great Ocean Road I will leave that to the big boys. The way the road is at the moment I would be safer in a Churchill tank. But after all that I still need to find a Carb so if any one has a spare 3/1 bronzed body would love to hear & I will have to convert to a 3/2.
regards
Richard

[33d6]

Modaks are a good starting point. David can come up with some surprising stuff.
Cheers,

[merry1]

Believe it or not Steve from Villiers Services has got back to me & has told me they have the right Carb NOS. Rather dearer than what MOD paid for the original bike but a least being new there should not be much to do with it.
Regards
Richard

[33d6]

At least you share the air strangler casting and air filter with the James ML so they should be a little easier to find.
Cheers,