Sun Overlander ?

[merry1]

Hi, Am trying to work out the model of a Sun. Identical to a Sun Overlander 250 twin but takes a single cylinder which I presume is a 9e . Colour is a Sky Blue even down to Sun tank badges. I was told here in Australia it was a Wasp/Overlander But I also come across this info  ("In 1957 the companies answer to the decline in lightweight sales were two new models with new frames, the 200cc Century and the 250cc 4 speed Overlander, known as the Overlander Twin. The Overlander was a vain attempt to make a better lightweight than any of the many other manufacturers that made Villiers engined lightweights. Both were too little, too late.")  The "Century" I can not find listed any where so if any one please can shed a glimmer of light it would be very much appreciated. A parts book on the Overlander would help me if any one has one available .

[R]

How different might be a Century from this one, and what you have ??
Not knowing my Villiers from top to bottom.



That address would put them one street over from Nortons ?

[33d6]

You're complicating a very simple issue.
Your Sun can be identified by both the engine number and frame number. The Century was a one year only model in 1957 when Sun was thrashing about in its final death throes. Give us the details and we'll tell you more.
As for a parts book, you don't need one. You bike is built to the standard British formula. You have a Villiers power unit including lighting, British Hub Co wheels as used in the majority of British lightweights of the day, an MP or Armstrong front end and proprietary rear suspension units (probably Armstrong). Very little was actually made by Sun. Only the frame, tank and seat. (The seat base on my mates Sun Cyclone had been stamped out of an old WWII ammunition box. We found out when he got it refurbished.)
To the best of my knowledge most Sun of that era were imported in to South Oz. Certainly none to Victoria after 1954.
All in all you have a typical British lightweight of the period which will serve you quite well and stands out from the usual pack of James and Fanny Bee's.

[merry1]

Thanks for your reply. I can not give you an engine No. one of the engine mounts had been modified to take a smaller engine when i got it. The Frame No. is 200  XMO  87.

[33d6]

Hi Richard,
The closest I can get to that frame number is 200 XMC.SA for the 9E/4 powered Wasp for 1957. The Century frame number is plain XCMC.SA and powered by a 3 speed 8E. I suspect you have the remains of a Wasp. Where did it come from?
Supposedly all postwar Villiers power units shared the same engine mounting dimensions so are readily interchangeable and so far (so far so good) I've found this correct, so theoretically you can repair your frame taking measurements from any postwar Villiers engine to hand and it will be okay for when the correct power unit turns up.

Cheers,

[Mark M]

Sorry, bit of a tangential question here but I think the OP has had his answer! I notice in the second frame picture that the bottom bracket casting (it is reminiscent of a bicycle component perhaps unsurprisingly,) has a distinctive raised triangle casting identification mark? Is this the mark for the Sun component company? It also appears on a lot of Royal Enfield cast iron components including the head stock castings and I've often wondered who made it.
Thanks for the mental stimulation,
REgards, Mark

[merry1]

Hi, thanks for the help, I picked the bike up from a friend I know down Warrnambool in Victoria   who is a Norton Man & it came from a deceased estate lot that he picked up. I thought that it would come as a very nice bike if I could find the engine which so far has eluded me.  Was The Wasp & Overlander identical except for the engine, I have put another photo up as it shows every thing I have for the bike, I think the only thing really missing apart from the engine is the offside rear louver panel, it is identical with the photo except for the twin engine which is why I could not work out what model it was.    I have not been able to locate a  photo of the "Century"  any where on the net. I still would not mind a parts book as it is all packed into a 100Lt tub & they are handy to see what is missing & what isn't.

[merry1]

Tnak badge is the same as this but is Blue & Silver

[merry1]

I believe the colour is Polychromatice Blue as in the ad

[R]

The National MC Museum sell the range of BMS brochure reprints, I see they have a 1958 one.
Nothing on the net visible, like you say.

https://www.nationalmotorcyclemuseum.co.uk/product-category/bruce-main-smith-bms-motorcycle-manuals/sun/

That is a very bright shade of silver-blue !
The colour inside that guard looks more like an authentic polychromatic silver-blue (??) of the 1950s.

[33d6]

It is a nice and clean looking jigger isn’t it. If that little tinware is missing and you have the other side as a mirror image pattern it shouldn’t be so hard to have made what you need.
You could approach the AOMC for a look at the old Sun rego cards. There can’t be that many of them to shuffle through. May have some useful info. It will certainly make clear what came into Victoria.
The UK VMCC library has a selection of possibly useful Sun material but they say a lot of it consists of poor photocopies. Better than nothing I suppose.
Finally there is Morton’s. Your lower Overlander photo appears to have come from an old Motorcycle or Motorcycling roadtest. Morton’s will have the original plus probably all the photos taken for the roadtest. Could be useful for different shots of the tinware. Worth a try. They may have other Sun material as well.
Very last thing. You could spend an entertaining afternoon in the State Library going through their copies of MotorCycling. It takes willpower to churn through eighteen months worth of magazines in an afternoon without being distracted by interesting articles but doable if you’re determined.