Author Topic: L'il Villiers  (Read 1967 times)

Offline 33d6

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Re: L'il Villiers
« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2026, 07:33:50 AM »
I disagree with the 'reinforcing the weak spots' idea. Why spend money, time and effort shoving reinforcing tubes inside other frame tubes when a more thoughtfully designed headstock lug and fitting decent grease nipples would have prevented the whole issue happening in the first place. Not much chance of that happening in British lightweight world was there. Their whole world seemed to revolve around their race to the bottom of cheap and nasty. Price seemed to be the sole criteria for the majority.

My '39' Montgomery is a perfect example. I never appreciated how a firm could use the one rear axle lug for every machine in its range, from a 125 two-stroke to a 1000cc vee-twin. And make same universal lug right or left handed by bashing off the the various unwanted bits to suit either the left or right side of the frame. Or how one could further cheapen a set of pressed steel forks seemingly identical to those on my Excelsior by not fitting the friction dampers used by Excelsior and eliminating all means of link and spindle adjustment with an anti-rattle Thackery washer on the end of each spindle. I won't go on to mention the centre stand made of angle iron nor the saddle mounting using the same angle iron. In the end its just so nasty you have to love it. Its pure runt of the litter territory.

We do digress. Its a pity we don't have the frame number. I'm curious to know whether this Waratah is one of the mis-war imports or immediate post war.

One final note. Leg shields were a standard fitment on the Excelsior version. They don't show up well on the usual catalogue illustrations but they're there. They were attached to the front down tube by the usual clamp on cross pieces. One look at the carburettor position and you can see why Excelsior fitted them.   
   

Offline cardan

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Re: L'il Villiers
« Reply #31 on: Today at 12:41:22 AM »
OK: it's weird I know but I have made a study of Excelsior frame lugs. Perhaps not as late as the bike in question, but I think the same ideas apply.

Prior to WW1 the firm of R. Walker & Son were makers and wholesalers of frame lugs and fittings. One of their large customers was Excelsior, which at the time was still attached to its origins as Bayliss Thomas. During the war (1917-ish, I recall), RWS purchased Excelsior and I think their ownership carried on until "the end".

Thus "Excelsior" "made their own lugs and fittings" while RWS sold similar lugs to other makers, in the UK and (especially) the colonies. They offered lug sets for a range of bikes, both in the UK and in Australia. In Adelaide, for example, the lightweight set was used by Elliott Payneham for some of their Villiers-powered bikes while J.N. Taylor used the heavyweight set for their V twins. My 1921 Victor Blackburne, made by Taylor, has stamped on the engine plates: "RW&S 6&8 JAP 8 B". My bike uses the 8hp Blackburne twin, while others (like the bikes built by Taylor for Swastika) use 6 and 8hp JAPs.

Unsurprisingly the Australian bikes share many features with the Excelsiors of the period. When Excelsior went to a whacky enormous steering head castings for their big twins around 1921, the same big lugs appeared on some Australian bikes, like Lou Borgelt's personal Swastika JAP.

The RWS heavyweight gearbox lug (or Australian copies of it) appear widely in Australian bikes in the early 1920s.

The Waratah on sale looks like it has a star dropper welded to the front down tube!!

Leon

Edit: I have only a couple of illustrated adverts for R Walker & Son lugs and frame fittings, from 1919 and 1924, both showing lightweight sets. Because sales were wholesale only, adverts don't appear in the usual magazines. Happy to see more if there are any out there!
« Last Edit: Today at 01:51:51 AM by cardan »