Electronic? ignition 5T Speed Twin. HELP!

[twolitre]

A little bit more.  If I could find any maker's name or part number it would obviously help.  I can find nothing on any visible surface and I am reluctant to dismantle things because I may have trouble if I disturb the timing.

[twolitre]

Oh dear! I am not exactly the best with computers. That method always results in qa messege 'host not recognised. I have no idea why and I do not know what to do about it. I only succeed with straight forward emails.

[L.A.B.]

Here's another system from BT-H. http://bt-h.biz/twin_mag.htm

It is a self contained magneto replacement unit, so runs without any need for battery power and this type may also fit the distributor mounting?

I'm not saying this is the one, but are there any similarities to your own?

[L.A.B.]

That method always results in qa messege 'host not recognised. I have no idea why and I do not know what to do about it. I only succeed with straight forward emails.

OK, I will email you.

[twolitre]

Rather similar, except for the square section in the middle.  It looks a little shorter and min has NO HT leads from it, only two low tension leads which looklike they may be 14/.012 (or 14/.3 if more modern).

[L.A.B.]

OK here are the photos from twolitre:









But I'm not sure we are dealing with anything 'electronic' here (the parts look far too old?).
 

The unidentified item could be some kind of ballast resistor? (I will have to check on that)

[L.A.B.]

Or as you said, the unidentified item could be some kind of double condenser unit?

I did get it into my head that this conversion would be some kind of electronic setup, but from looking at the photos there's nothing to suggest that at all really?

As you said the bike has spent some time in Malaya then this system may have been cobbled up from anything to keep it running?

The cup shaped part of the distributor looks like some kind of cover held in place against the primary drive inner casting by that spring clip? Does that part come off?

[twolitre]

The 'spring clip' is merely a support bracket bolted to the inner primary chain case. If the unit does come apart it will probably be from the other end by undoing the hexagon (quick thread?) screws.  
 On looking again at my photos, it seems to me that the flanged part may have been fabricated (not very professionally) from a distributor body (possibly Delco) which might suggest that the cylindrical part was intended for some totally different engine/use.
Jim

[L.A.B.]

So the next thing would be to identify the wiring, as that was your original question.

This bike has apparently been converted to 12V, so I would expect the coils are likely to be 12V items, can you identify them?

From your original description the system appears to be wired positive earth, so I would expect there to be a Neg wire connected to the distributor from the battery (via an ignition switch?) and a wire to each of the coils if there are double points in that distributor?

If there is a single points set in there, then it could be operating as a 'wasted spark' system with two 6V coils wired in series, both coils producing simultaneous sparks at the plugs for each crankshaft revolution, one of the two sparks being alternately 'wasted'.

If the unidentified unit is a condenser pack then I would expect wires from it to connect to each one of the points wires at some point between the points and the coils?  

[twolitre]

Thanks.  I think I will have to put this 'on hold' for a day or two while I do some dismantling.  Obviously there must be a trigger somewhere (ie. points or a substitute) which might be a clue.  I did wonder about a 'wasted spark' setup as you mention and also about energy transfer.   I'll try to get the cylindrical part off and trace what wiring I can.  As I said the wiring is a jumble. Wires twisted together with no trace of the original harness and no attempt at rational colour coding.  Many circuits are disconnected or have wires missing.
  I do intend to rip it all out and rewire with a new harness as a start (which will no doubt need modifying) and if the worst comes to the worst reverting to a more standard setup if I can locate a distributor or suitable alternative.
Jim.

[twolitre]

Hah!  Now I feel a right idiot!
Removing the cover on the 'baked beans' tin revealed two sets of points independently wired to the two coils via the strange unit which must obviously be some kind of patent twin condenser.  If L.A.B. is kind enough to post the pics. (which seems to be beyond my capabilities) the set up will be clearer.  Note the disconnected wiring and wonderful (economic?) method of connecting wires to the contact breakers, This may be the standard Malayan method.  All wiring connections are a variation of this method, but some are enhanced by yellow plastic insulation tape.
  Now.  Does anyone know where  I might obtain a correct Lucas distributor for this bike?  I feel a retrograde mood coming on.
Jim.

[L.A.B.]

If L.A.B. is kind enough to post the pics. (which seems to be beyond my capabilities) the set up will be clearer.

Jim,

Thanks for your email, and it really is a pleasure to do this; -so here they are:





Jim said:

"I have also included a pic.of my 1959 5TA imitating a 5T just to show that my other bikes are in rather better condition."


And:

"Also one of two of my Triumphs fifty years apart.  I'm sat on the on in the black and white photo (i Don't look like that now!) I wish I still had the one with me on it."

Sorry the photos below are rather small, (perhaps Jim could send a higher res. image version?), as I suspect Nigel would like to add one or both of them to the photo section?

[twolitre]

Thanks for your interest and help everyone.  I think it is time to sign this off now.
  Just a historic comment.  YRA 46 in the black photo was only two years old when the photo was taken in 1957 in Douglas IOM during TT week with a 'PURMA' camera (historic in its own right). If you look carefully you will see that it has only one mirror.  It had two when it left Ramsey, but the other vibrated off at well beyond recommended maximum revs. climbing away from Ramsey Hairpin.  Shortly afterwards the bike had just over 100 mph on the clock between Brandish and Hillberry with TWO up!  The pillion passenger insisted on buying it after that. I know 5t's could not do that, but when Bill Lomas had it for sale about a year later in his Clay Cross Shop at a rather inflated price he said "I don't know what has been done to this bike but it is far far faster than it should be".  He would not believe me when I told him it used to be mine and that it was 'bog-standard'.
  I would give my eye teeth to get the bike back, but I imagine it is long gone.
 Regards to all Jim Walker.