Author Topic: Vintage white wall tyres.  (Read 32604 times)

Offline cardan

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Re: Vintage white wall tyres.
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2015, 11:50:17 AM »
My pleasure. It's a most interesting bike, in fact the New Henley frame cause quite a stir at the Shows at the end of 1927 where it was rated one of the best new designs.

One interesting part of the design is how the gearbox mounts. I think there's a bolt in casting that has the slots for the two-stud top-mount Burman gearbox. This seems to be missing from your bike? It would be worth finding or making one, as this is an important part of the design.

Good luck with the restoration,

Leon

« Last Edit: August 17, 2015, 11:52:23 AM by cardan »

Offline chaterlea25

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Re: Vintage white wall tyres.
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2015, 01:46:58 PM »
Hi smartfella,
Your NH appears to have an Albion gearbox fitted as opposed to the Burmans in the catalog
pics ??
(just to add to your woes ???)

Have you the JAP engine? is it the "dog ear " type as in the catalog?


Regards
John

Offline smartfella

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Re: Vintage white wall tyres.
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2015, 04:53:43 PM »
Yes its an albion and I am putting a Sturmey Archer SV 350cc in it. This is only because
I knew nothing about the bike and It come with both parts.

Carden,

Where did you get the photos. I contacted loads of people including James Hewing Museum Director of the
The National Motorcycle Museum and he never heard of it. He thought it was a foreign bike.
He has a Henley tho.

« Last Edit: August 17, 2015, 05:08:33 PM by smartfella »

Offline cardan

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Re: Vintage white wall tyres.
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2015, 11:04:46 PM »

I don't know what has happened to motor cycling history: there are very few people around who are interested, fewer who know anything about it, and even fewer prepared to share what they know. The New Henley info comes from the two motor cycling magazines of the day: The Motor Cycle and Motor Cycling. I have many of the Show Numbers in my own personal library, but they do exist in various public libraries and in the Vintage MCC (UK) library. If you want to find out "stuff" about main-stream motor cycles - and I consider New Henley to be main stream - then the period magazines are the obvious place to start looking.

The VMCC also has Marque Experts for most of the major marques: contact them and see if they have a New Henley Marque Expert. You never know; some of us have very unusual interests!

Re the restoration of the bike: New Henley might have been a small manufacturer, but in 1928 their new cradle frame design and their quality components (JAP motor, Burman gear box, Bramption/Webb front fork) meant that they were building an advanced and desirable vintage motorcycle in 1928/1929. The JAP engine and Burman gearbox could both be acquired if you really wanted them to give you an interesting, rideable and valuable vintage motorcycle. If you poke in any-old motor and gearbox you'll certainly have something less.

Cheers

Leon

Offline cardan

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Offline cardan

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Re: Vintage white wall tyres.
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2015, 11:24:36 PM »

I suspect this is a 1927 model, rather than 1928 as claimed. In 1927, with the "ordinary" diamond frame (where the motor is part of the frame, rather than mounted IN the frame), the New Henley was much like the output of 100 other small manufacturers. The 1928 cradle frame was something special - not the first but on the leading edge.

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/16535/lot/223/

Leon

Offline cardan

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Re: Vintage white wall tyres.
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2015, 11:29:21 PM »

This one could be 1927, but as usual with restored bike you should be weary of the motor and gearbox fitted. Henley (before New Henley) did use Blackburne motors, so it could be OK. Again the "boring" diamond frame.

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/19163/lot/395/

Leon

Offline cardan

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Re: Vintage white wall tyres.
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2015, 11:32:23 PM »

"Graces Guide" is a fabulous resource, but as usual it should be used more as a guide than a bible. We know, for example, that the cradle frame was shown at the end of 1927 and was fitted to at least some of the 1928 models. Still, some good info:

http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Henley,_Blackburn_and_Co

Leon

Offline cardan

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Re: Vintage white wall tyres.
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2015, 11:38:45 PM »

This site has some photos of Henley/New Henley bikes. Funny; I'd guess that the two bikes labelled Henley are probably New Henleys about 1927 http://www.vintagebike.co.uk/gallery-category/manufacturers/h/henley/ and the bike lablelled New Henley is probably a 1925-6-ish Henley! www.vintagebike.co.uk/pictures/1926-new-henley-2-34hp/

Leon

Offline cardan

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Re: Vintage white wall tyres.
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2015, 11:49:11 PM »

The reason that magazines are hard to find is that most are being cut into little pieces and spread to the four winds. Still, if you want an original New Henley advert:

www.ebay.com.au/itm/161772897043

If you ask, he might have the scraps of this same magazine, with the New Henley article in it.

Leon

Offline iansoady

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Re: Vintage white wall tyres.
« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2015, 11:55:39 AM »
I know the VMCC is not popular with some here but their library is a superb resource. They have indexed copies of both The Motor Cycle and Motor Cycling (as well as lots of others) in bound volumes and will photocopy pages for a small fee (not sure if this is available to non-members).

But you do need to be careful with the pictures in the reports - for instance the lubrication system on my Sunbeam is entirely different to the pictures in the magazines and in Bob Cordon Champ's book, although the same as on the two restored examples I've seen pictures of.
Ian
1952 Norton ES2
1986 Honda XBR500
1958-ish Tre-Greeves

Offline smartfella

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Re: Vintage white wall tyres.
« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2015, 02:02:21 PM »
Don't get me wrong I have no problems with VMCC the gentleman just never heard of the bike. It was quite nice of him to at least try.

I only wish I could restore it proper Carden but funds will lead the way it goes.
I'm still a learner at this game.

Offline mini-me

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Re: Vintage white wall tyres.
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2015, 03:01:25 PM »
Be careful of sidevalve Jap or Sturmy archer engines on offer, as most on sale via ebay seem to have started life in a lawnmower or some industrial application; sold by people who have very little knowledge of vintage or even british bikes.
That said, a sv Jap engine ought to be the easiest to fit, and for spares.

I'm none too sure about that gearbox either, if it came with the engine, its likely lawn mower as well.

What Cardan says below is spot on but I disgree in part with what he said about people not willing to share what they know.

I quit one club [not VMCC] after years of sharing extensive knowledge of one make gained from, not only owning that marque for 50 years, but a stint working at the factory that made them.
The reason for that was after sharing such knowledge, gained the hard way, and not by reading misinformation from the old bike press invariably up would pop some born again type who tried to contradict me or prove me wrong, or show me a "better" way of solving a non existant problem. [I'm a firm believer in doing things the way the maker intended and putting the thing together, once, properly. So many think finding a hi tech solution to a low tech problem proves something].

There is only so many times I can stand being told how "wrong" my own bike is, the bike thats had two owners in its 80yr life.

I came to the conclusion that one big factor in that was the newcomers to old biking, almost always the worst kind, are the guys in their late 40s or 50s who have made a few bob being successful in life,bought an expensive bike but cannot stand to be shown to be mistaken or ignorant of a subject. Needless to say they have spent their time in non practical businesses.
The other is the type who has read all the classic bike press, thinks he thus knows it all, and is therefore an 'expert' on it all.
That the type who is selling stuff on ebay so hilariously misdescribed.
As for the bike press, I stopped reading many years ago when the 'expert' writer did not know the difference between a magneto and an alternator. A lot of the time these writers are just re-hashing old misinformation from older issues.
That shows the value of the older resources, now being cut up and dispersed by opportunists on ebay etc.
You cannot beat first hand knowledge.

As for  you smartfella ask  around as much as you can, but wiegh up the info you get, judge it, sit on it, and then  do not be afraid to dismiss it if it doesn't feel right.

[and don't waste money on white wall tyres]!

Offline smartfella

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Re: Vintage white wall tyres.
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2015, 09:44:20 PM »
Thanks for all the comments.

If I can get a JAP 350cc OHV engine & Burman Gear box and a I will fit them.
So if anyone has them and wants to swop with a Nice 350cc Sturmey Archer SV engine & Albion 3 speed gear box let me know.
As usual money is always a factor.
I can only do my best.

Offline mark2

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Re: Vintage white wall tyres.
« Reply #29 on: August 20, 2015, 09:58:23 PM »
Parallel pushrod engine for a sturmy archer , let me think