Author Topic: Identify a gearbox from a Raleigh Model 15 248cm from 1928  (Read 829 times)

Offline Paulo Fonseca

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Identify a gearbox from a Raleigh Model 15 248cm from 1928
« on: February 16, 2021, 03:22:39 PM »
Hi,
I'm Paulo from Portugal and I'm starting to bring an old raleigh to life. The bike was dismantled when I receive it.

This bike should have a Sturmey Archer 3 speed gearbox.
My gearbox looks different from others. The lever/gear changer is very different from the ones I found in other similar bikes, they have a U shape attachement, mine it has 3 inline holes.

Looking at the images, would you say this is a Sturmey Archer 3 speed gearbox? Or it's a different brand? Or they change the leveron the bike?

Gearbox serial: BS 44835   AE
Bike frame number: L5304 (Strange L on the number and strange location of the serial number)
Engine NUmber: M14715












« Last Edit: February 16, 2021, 08:36:49 PM by Paulo Fonseca »

Offline Paulo Fonseca

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Re: Identify a gearbox from a Raleigh Model 15 248cm from 1928
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2021, 08:55:07 PM »
I've found some information that shows that exists a Sturmey Arches BS Type in 1928 with serials like mine

http://www.southwalessectionvmcc.co.uk/Library/Tech%20files/sturmey%20archer%20gearboxes.pdf
Year   /   Type   /  Serial
1927   /  Bs  /  38000
1928   /  Bs   /  44000
1929   /  Bs  /   50000




Offline R

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Re: Identify a gearbox from a Raleigh Model 15 248cm from 1928
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2021, 09:17:57 PM »
Can you make this gearbox work with what you have ?
Boxes then didn't have a positive stop mechanism, so someone may have been updating/improvising ?

Does this bike look familiar ?  Bit small to see good detail though.
If you zoom in, it looks very much like what you have ?

Or this previous thread

http://classicmotorcycleforum.com/index.php?topic=4832.0

« Last Edit: February 16, 2021, 09:32:35 PM by R »


Offline Paulo Fonseca

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Re: Identify a gearbox from a Raleigh Model 15 248cm from 1928
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2021, 12:29:07 AM »
Can you make this gearbox work with what you have ?
Boxes then didn't have a positive stop mechanism, so someone may have been updating/improvising ?

Does this bike look familiar ?  Bit small to see good detail though.
If you zoom in, it looks very much like what you have ?

Or this previous thread

http://classicmotorcycleforum.com/index.php?topic=4832.0



Hi again,

Yes, the bike is the same from that post o mentioned. I inherited the bike and now I'm going to restore it

I'm trying to put everything together to find whats missing, but it'a my first time, so I will have to search external help.

I have many pictures from bikes like mine but any of them have the same gear changer system that mine have.The lever its very different.

Are saying that they didn't have any gear lock mechanism? And this could be an improvment?

The gears shaft is drilled. I think to pass a pin that will activate the clutch.

On the other bikes there seems to be a "screw" that will rotate and push the clutch. I don't have that mechanism








Offline 33d6

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Re: Identify a gearbox from a Raleigh Model 15 248cm from 1928
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2021, 01:45:42 AM »
Hi Paulo,
Your gearbox is Sturmey Archer and is basically correct for a 1928 250cc Raleigh but who knows what has been done to it over the past 90 years.
I suggest you start by getting together the various spare parts manuals available. Search both the VMCC Library and the English National Motorcycle Museum book shop for copies. Sturmey Archer produced many variants over the years to suit various manufacturers so you need to collect a few different spare parts lists to follow these things through. Photocopies are cheap and carefully studying these lsts is a good way of spending a winter evening. It makes the job much easier in the long run.
It will drive you crazy at first but it will stop you making expensive and time wasting mistakes.
The Sturmey Archer 3 speed box is not complicated. It is simple but you have to learn its little tricks.
It works best if restored to standard factory condition. It does not need "updating" or "improving". 

There are also other helpful publications you may find useful. If you are just starting to learn about vintage motorcycles you will find you need to build up your own small library.

Offline 33d6

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Re: Identify a gearbox from a Raleigh Model 15 248cm from 1928
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2021, 03:07:01 AM »
I forgot about this site. www.sturmey-archerheritage.com , it has a useful 1929 illustrated spare parts list you can use. It's a good start.

Offline R

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Re: Identify a gearbox from a Raleigh Model 15 248cm from 1928
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2021, 04:40:21 AM »
Most Sturmeys of that era you'd expect to see a clutch worm to activate the clutch pushrod.
Has yours been changed to something different ?

This is Norton rather than Sturmey, but the concept is the same.


Offline Paulo Fonseca

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Re: Identify a gearbox from a Raleigh Model 15 248cm from 1928
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2021, 04:39:42 PM »
I forgot about this site. www.sturmey-archerheritage.com , it has a useful 1929 illustrated spare parts list you can use. It's a good start.

I've allready order raleigh and sturmey archer manuals.
I allready knew sturmey archer heritage. I've used it to identify my bicycle gear hubs.

Offline Paulo Fonseca

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Re: Identify a gearbox from a Raleigh Model 15 248cm from 1928
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2021, 04:43:02 PM »
Most Sturmeys of that era you'd expect to see a clutch worm to activate the clutch pushrod.
Has yours been changed to something different ?

This is Norton rather than Sturmey, but the concept is the same.


As far as I can see my clutch actuator is different. Please see the image bellow and tell me your opinion.



Offline R

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Re: Identify a gearbox from a Raleigh Model 15 248cm from 1928
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2021, 01:27:20 AM »
It does seem to be different.

Now, the question is is this a previous owners's modification, or were some built like that ?

Albion had a lever that pivoted down, and pushed the pushrod to actuate the clutch.
Do you have a pivot point that could do similar.
Or has that previous owner started this modification, and not finished it ??

Offline 33d6

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Re: Identify a gearbox from a Raleigh Model 15 248cm from 1928
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2021, 04:17:27 AM »
Sturmey Archer also built the FW box with a lever arrangement rather than the worm action release. I happen to have both types of box in my shed. My Model R Matchless has an FW box fitted whilst my T/4 “project” has the same BS box as shown here. It has the worm action release fitted. I’m quite familiar with both.
Personally I think the current arrangement shown is a completely “foreign” add on and nothing to do with Sturmey Archer at all. It appears well made but nothing to do with Sturmey Archer. I also think no original Sturmey Archer part has been altered in fitting it so that returning it original as it left the factory is just a matter of re-installing what was removed without any fuss or having to re- make any piece. To me it shows a high level of trade skills. ——- but it’s not Sturmey Archer.

Offline Paulo Fonseca

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Re: Identify a gearbox from a Raleigh Model 15 248cm from 1928
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2021, 09:15:47 PM »
Dear 33d6 and dear R, thank ou so much for your help.

I took some photos, and as you can see, the cluch lever and the gear changer mechanism feet very well in the gearbox.  They could be from other bike, but they look made to this gearbox.
Looking at the patina, they look very very old.

33d6, what parts from my images do you think that don't bellong to a SA gearbox? Just the cluch and gear changer mechanism or you also include the inside parts?

Another strange fact it's the location of the bike serial number. It's on the frame neck, not under the seat.



« Last Edit: February 23, 2021, 10:39:45 PM by Paulo Fonseca »

Offline R

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Re: Identify a gearbox from a Raleigh Model 15 248cm from 1928
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2021, 04:28:16 AM »
Ah, If you've got all those bits for the clutch activation like that, then its looking good that that was made and supplied like that.
Sturmey Archers sure came in a lot of varieties....

Offline cardan

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Re: Identify a gearbox from a Raleigh Model 15 248cm from 1928
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2021, 04:57:51 AM »
Nicely made, but not by Sturmey Archer, and certainly not in 1928 when foot change was not even common at the Isle of Man TT race! That said, someone has gone to a lot of trouble, and personally I'd keep it as part of the bike's history.

The other option is to convert it back to how it was (worm clutch and hand change).

Leon