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Messages - 33d6

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1
British Bikes / Re: Villiers engine in 1930s Waratah
« on: July 04, 2025, 02:14:17 PM »
Given that we know catalogue illustrations of any make can have errors and makers were not unknown to send the odd NQR (Not Quite Right) model out here. I can never get too excited about minor  differences.

Personally I go along with Cardans “commercial pragmatism”, with Excelsior juggling the demands of the Australian Excelsior agent (whoever they were) plus William Bros Waratah plus using up as much redundant stock cheaply as possible as they could get away with. We’ll never know all the minor differences and does it really matter?

As for the myriad of differences between the various Villiers 250’s I'm not surprised at the odd publication getting them tangled up. I do the same. With the massive amount of wordage generated about them all a serious reader knows better than taking all these reports at literal face value. There’s bound to be a certain percentage of mistakes.

Do we need to know more or do we know enough?

2
British Bikes / Re: Villiers engine in 1930s Waratah
« on: July 04, 2025, 12:40:40 AM »
Yes we do. We went down that rabbit hole exhaustively some time back. You’ll have todo a little exploration of earlier posts.


3
British Bikes / Re: Villiers engine in 1930s Waratah
« on: July 03, 2025, 02:13:03 PM »
I’d expect that to be a Mk16A, 67x70mm bore & stroke, made 1934-40.mainly viewed as the standard 250cc workhorse of the range.
Villiers made a surprising range of 250’s in that period. With Autolube system or petroil, air cooled, water cooled, short stroke or long stroke, flattop piston, deflector top piston, long bush plain main bearings or ball race with seals. Yer pays yer money and takes yer pick.
The 16A was about as standard as it got. Petroil, deflector piston, long bush plain mains. Well tested technology but will plonk along forever.
That particular Waratah looks very much like the 1938 Excelsior Meritor.

4
British Bikes / Re: Hot Start Problem
« on: July 03, 2025, 09:34:22 AM »
I’ve been plodding through my early BSA literature. It’s made interesting reading. I hadn’t known BSA gave their ignition timings using full retard for several years. They came in line with standard practice sometime in the mid-30’s. They did a full turn around ferociously emphasising all magneto ignition timings were on full advance. In 1936, the last year of Mr Billingtons particular BSA ignition timing was now listed as 7/16” at full advance.
It was a similar curious story with the tappet settings. They were steadily increased over the life of that particular engine. Mr Billington is correct in saying the settings were inlet .004” and exhaust .006” in 1932 but had listed them as .004 for both the year before in 1931 and increased the exhaust setting to .008 for 1933-36.
Lots of food for thought there isn’t there.

5
British Bikes / Re: Hot Start Problem
« on: July 02, 2025, 04:39:37 AM »
Jon, you are discussing this problem with a group of Australians all of whom regard 25degreesC as merely balmy, not hot at all and who play with vintage and veteran machinery much older than yours. As a 1932 model pedantically your bike isn’t even vintage. You may have a hot start problem but warm weather and age of machinery are not the root cause of your woes. It lies elsewhere.
I have a practical guide to BSA from 1931 written by D W Munro of BSA and first published in 1948 by Pearson in front of me. In his chapter on servicing old models Mr Munro goes on at length about “The Importance of Correct Ignition Timing” for nigh on two pages, finishing off the second page with other possible causes being weak mixture, tight valve guides, burnt valves and insufficient exhaust tapped clearance.
It may be time to again look closely at all these matters.

6
British Bikes / Re: Hot Start Problem
« on: July 01, 2025, 07:03:00 AM »
I’ve been thinking of other possibilities. My vintage side valve experience mainly comes from operating a 1926 Matchless. This has a splash and hope total loss lubrication system with exposed valves and sloppy provision for valve guide lubrication. This created some entertaining stoppage issues that took some time to diagnose and even longer to effectively resolve. As your BSA is only a little younger  I was wondering whether you might have the same.
The one that most closely resembles your problem was a sticky exhaust valve. This was over lubricated as the piston did not have provision for an oil control ring (pointless with a total loss lubrication system) much oil disappeared down the exhaust pipe clagging up the exhaust valve guide on the way. This caused mysterious stoppages and refusal to start for no apparent reason. Any sort of fiddling with the engine, checking fuel, checking spark, etc, allowed the engine to cool down, the valve freed itself and it would happily restart with me thinking it was my successful fiddling that did the trick, not the cooling off.
I’m not saying that is your problem precisely but I am saying your problem may lie in the valve operation. Guides slightly too tight, valve lifter a fraction tight and so on. It doesn’t take much for valves to not quite seat when hot yet be fine when cooler.


7
British Bikes / Re: Hot Start Problem
« on: June 29, 2025, 03:15:33 AM »
Of course the magneto could fail after little use. Age and how it has been stored since last done can have serious consequences regardless of mileage done.
I’m currently amusing myself with three radio controlled helicopters. All N.O.S, all received in their original unopened packaging, all looking perfect but all non running due to battery failure through sitting around for the last ten years or so. Electrical equipment can do that if left sitting. Look good externally but moulder away internally. Very frustrating but that’s how it is.
As R says it could also be vapour lock. Side valve engines do tend to run hotter than their OHV equivalent and I have seen some poorly thought out fuel line arrangements as well as R’s failure to fit a Tufnol heat barrier twixt carb and cylinder.
Nevertheless I tend towards electrical failure as my own experiences with vapour lock have been on stinking hot summer days with the engine smelling like a fifty year old fish and chip shop on a busy Friday night. Not just a mere hot start issue.
Tell us how you get on.

8
British Bikes / Re: ACME aussie bike
« on: June 11, 2025, 10:49:41 AM »
This bike is still on eBay but now down to $4k. Maybe this is one of those reverse auctions where the price keeps dropping until someone starts to bid?
I’ll keep watching (if I remember).

9
British Bikes / Re: Villiers XIIC 148cc doesn’t run anymore
« on: June 08, 2025, 09:57:02 AM »
There isn’t much comfort in checking the mainshafts for truth. New mainshafts aren’t to be had. Villiers mainshafts of the period are integral with the flywheel. They can be be ground circular undersized up to .005-.010” off but the centres have to be unmarred and dead true plus be set up dead true to the big end assembly. Not an easy job. I’ve chewed this job over and over, reluctantly coming to the conclusion it’s probably just as easy to make the whole assembly new from scratch. Either way is a drama.
On the plus side the two crankshaft halves are identical which is both a blessing and a curse as it both makes the job easier but is wide open for enthusiastic owners to unwittingly end for end the crank assembly when putting things back together. The wear patterns are different for each side so end for ending speeds up the wear rate until the original patterns reassert themselves.
Old British two-strokes are of dead simple construction but quite subtle to get running really well. Charging in with lots of enthusiasm rarely ends well.

10
British Bikes / Re: Villiers XIIC 148cc doesn’t run anymore
« on: June 07, 2025, 02:42:45 AM »
If you have pulled the engine apart and removed one bush it is best to replace the bushes on both sides to make a proper job of it. Replacing one bush alone is usually just a short term repair, replacing both has long term benefits.
I don’t know of anyone supplying these bushes but as they are so easy to make I just make my own. They can be made of any common phosphor bronze bearing material, there is no benefit in using anything fancy or special. This is a very ordinary job for any skilled machinist.

11
British Bikes / Re: Villiers XIIC 148cc doesn’t run anymore
« on: June 02, 2025, 08:46:46 AM »
Villiers advised up to .008” wear was acceptable. Whether bushes or crankshaft are worn is irrelevant. It is combined wear that counts. Essentially though, if it’s an easy starter, leave well alone. I find the major problem with old Villiers engines is that owners can’t resist pulling them apart to then find they’re never quite the same afterwards.
I think the fussiest area revolves around the ignition timing and the points. The points cam is on the end of the crankshaft so is directly affected by mains bush/crankshaft wear plus the points pivot hole in the points box wears so the action of the rocking pivot point gets erratic. It’s fascinating to watch when using an ignition timing light. You have this blurred line wandering 4-5 degrees each side of the timing line.
I don’t worry overly much about overheating. All cast iron fixed head two-strokes running a cast iron piston run hot. They cannot do otherwise. Just be enthusiastic with the oil.


12
British Bikes / Re: Villiers XIIC 148cc doesn’t run anymore
« on: June 01, 2025, 11:49:58 PM »
Yes, that is correct. The vertical surface of the deflector  faces the transfer  port.

13
British Bikes / Re: ACME aussie bike
« on: June 01, 2025, 07:14:11 AM »
As an aside that may explain the common problem of finding wheels for various projects. In my apprenticeship youth it was common to see various workshop mobile devices rolling around on motorcycle wheels. Oxy/acetylene sets spring to mind. Much easier to get a large wheeled set across a muddy plant park to the dozer you were working on than the usual indoor set with tiddly little cast iron things. It was traditional for the apprentice to get the muddy and clumsy jobs in the far end of the plant park. Particularly if it had been raining for the past few days.
We had a variety of odd carts with odd motorcycle wheel set ups. All for lugging various bits and bobs around and what’s the point of having an apprentice if he isn’t the one doing the pushing and pulling?
Now I know there wasn’t an alternative wheel source.

14
British Bikes / Re: Villiers XIIC 148cc doesn’t run anymore
« on: May 31, 2025, 05:56:41 AM »
Personally, it sounds like a fuel problem. Not enough fuel getter to the carburettor. Could be anything from a blocked air hole in the petrol cap or half blocked fuel tap but I particularly distrust modern in-line fuel filters. They are not made to to pass a mixture of petrol and oil.
Best of luck.

15
British Bikes / Re: ACME aussie bike
« on: May 31, 2025, 03:58:40 AM »
It’s a fine line between ‘manufacture’ and ‘assemble’. Acme erected their own frame. Who made the tubing? Who made the lugs? I would expect Australian made tubing, but what about the lugs? Did buying the Webb forks include the headstock lug? I don’t know.
What about the wheels? The hubs were imported but what about the spokes and rims? I would expect spokes to be made locally but what about the rims? Dunlop were popping them out by the gazillion. Could local manufacture compete given the economies of scale?
So it goes on.
What Bennet & Wood did was no different from many other small motorcycle factories of the time. Lots of proprietary parts but their own vision. I’ll accept ‘maker’.

Last thing. The prewar Acme silencer was merely a Coventry Eagle job mounted upside down. Postwar C/E were gone but there was now a thriving local aviation industry looking for work. Pressing out Acme silencer halves was no different to pressing out lightweight aeroplane bits and pieces. Problem solved.

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