M O T ing a Brit Bike

[Trumper]

   Hi everyone,
 My Triumph 5ta is due an MOT next month.Being an old bike [1955] are there any problems associated with getting it MOTed.
 I know my luck i'll get a spotted oik failing it because it drips oil abit,isn't fitted with a catalytic converter or even has indicators
 Are there any pitfalls i need to watch out for,many thanks  

[LJ.]

I've not really had any serious problems, I have found they seem to be pretty keen on wheel bearings and ensuring that wheels line up, but this is easy enough to keep check on. It's finding a tester with a little common sense and who's prepared to be a little flexible. Good Luck with it anyhow.

[L.A.B.]

Here's the MOT testers manual for motorcycles:

http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual/mc_contents.htm

[Goldie]

I find that most motorcycle MOT stations do use common sense when testing the older type british bike.
Normally on my older brits they check tyres, spokes, brakes, swinging arm, head bearings, lights, horn, knowing that it is not going to come up the modern bike spec.

I have found sometimes in the past that the more older tester who grew up with the older machinery, takes into consideration that allowances have to be made when comparing them to the more modern bikes of today

[Trumper]

  Thanks for the replies  

[Jim Griff]

Yeah I agree totally with the previous comments. I had a problem with my Altette horn, so whilst it was in bits I fiited a bulb horn to get it through the MOT. The tester wasn't a young bloke, but insisted that it wasn't legal and would have to fail it!!! I argued the toss and ended up leaving him to check with the DVLA on the computer whilst I went for a coffee elsewhere to cool down. It turns out that they are illegal in the UK post 1973 or something, my bike is somewhat older than that, being a 1948 rigid A7!!!

I no longer give this tester any of my hard earned ££££ and go elsewhere where they have a bit of common sense

[52t-bird]

Hello,Sorry to be a pedant but a few points.You mention your bike is a 5TA and date it as 1955 however the 5TA was not produced until 1958. I know it may seem a trivial point but if you order parts and say your bike is a 5TA and your bike is actually a 1955 5T you will almost certainly get the wrong parts as 5t's are pre unit 5TA's are unit. Regarding your inquiry regarding MOT standards and how they relate to old bikes 99% of MOT testers are fair and use their discretion where appropriate on older machines.The problem is bike owners seem to think it is okay to drive a bike with basic faults and moan when you tell them it is not safe!!For the record recent MOT updates do include excessive oil leaks as a failure point with what is excessive excessive being the difficult bit.For example If it is coating your rear tyre with oil its a fail!!No offense to Jim Griff but come on,a bulb horn on a 48 A7 is not an adequate warning to pedestrians and other road users and is not legal on your machine old or not as it was not original equipment. MOT regs were tightened up on this issue and only bikes which are deemed appropriate ie  lightweight machines, or those that used the bulb horn as original equpiment like a D1 can use one. Your MOT tester was quite right to fail you for having a bulb horn fitted on your machine and if you are honest you were taking a liberty fitting one!! I was an MOT tester for ten years and it never ceased to amaze me how bike owners could not see that you were only thinking of their best interests not just being difficult! remember we are motorcyclists too!! Regards David

[Rex]

I agree with Mr Griff. Bulb horns were common in the 1940s and weren't exactly rare up to the 1970s on choppers and trials bikes, and no-one batted an eyelid.

As a generalisation, there's a pretty good chance that a 1947 A7 is going to do minimal miles annually, so to my mind a little discretion would've passed it but given a quiet word that next time the Altette should be fitted and working.

There's the letter of the law, and the spirit of the law, and they ain't necessarily the same...

[And yes, one of my old bikes from 1948 has no lights or electrics but does have a bulb horn....and an MoT]

[52t-bird]

Hello,Sorry i dont want to hijack Trumpers  discussion and divert the issue to an MOT discussion but Rex you have fallen into the trap many do.You say how bulb horns were common fitment i think you will find they were not at all common on anything post war other than autocycles and lightweights as original equipment but yes many were fitted in the 1960's and 1970's as a token audible warning. However my point and 'the trap' is that you are NOT DRIVING in the 1960's/70's amongst Anglias and Morris minors on roads with relatively light traffic you are driving in 2009 with roads fast and busy and pedestrians wearing ipods.I'm sorry to be blunt but i would not want to ride a bike fitted with a bulb horn if i saw a child about to run out in front of me.The law and the spirit of the law may be one thing but an injured or dead pedestrian is something as an MOT tester i dont want on my concience after all how hard is it to fit a horn,even a tempory £5 jap one?? The MOT test is very basic in real terms and in my humble opinion if a bike cannot pass the simple requirements it simply isnt safe!There are exceptions for veterans which simply cannot comply but 99% of post war machines should have no difficulty in passing the test if in good condition.I know i sound like a terrible jobsworth but ignoring faults or bodging to get past an MOT is not accetable in my book.

Your bike with no lights would have been tested under daylight mot regs which have different requirements for audible warning due to the lack of battery and or electrical systems on trial bikes. Construction and use regs also apply here.

[Searchguru]

In response to Jim Griff and Rex, motorcycles first used (meaning registered) before 1st August 1973 are permitted to have a bulb horn. Regardless of that a tester has the authority to fail any motorcycle if the horn is not capable of providing an audible and sufficient warning of the approach or position of the motorcycle. So in your tester's opinion, to which he is entitled by law, your bike failed on this point even if you can prove when it was registered. You could say that anybody's bike only has to be right once a year if you're going down the 'spirit of the law' route.

[L.A.B.]

a bulb horn on a 48 A7 is not an adequate warning to pedestrians and other road users and is not legal on your machine old or not as it was not original equipment. MOT regs were tightened up on this issue and only bikes which are deemed appropriate ie  lightweight machines, or those that used the bulb horn as original equpiment like a D1 can use one.

Unfortunately you appear to be misinformed:

http://www.motuk.co.uk/mcmanual_170.htm

Quote:
"A motor bicycle first used before
1 August 1973 may be fitted with a bulb
horn."


  

Your MOT tester was quite right to fail you for having a bulb horn fitted on your machine and if you are honest you were taking a liberty fitting one!!

IF the bulb horn met the actual requirements of the test (on a pre- 8/73 machine) then the tester would indeed have been wrong to fail the machine.

Also, the MOT test is primarily, a test of a vehicle's condition of roadworthiness, (it is not a test of what is either road legal or illegal, although certain aspects do overlap) and it is not really the job of the MOT tester to play policeman and decide what in his opinion conforms to the letter of the law and what does not, as he/she should be making judgements solely within the guidelines of the MOT test rules, if he were to do otherwise then there would be grounds to appeal against his decision.    

[52t-bird]

Mot regs are subject to quite wide tester discretion/interpretation and whilst the regs state a bulb horn may be used pre 1973 they also state;
a. a horn not working OR NOT LOUD ENOUGH to be heard by another road user and that means to me above engine noise as you are not likely to use it when the engine is off.As such i would fail a large motorcycle fitted with a buld horn as i would consider not fit for use unless exceptionally loud. You could then appeal if you wished. I do not understand why you think it is okay to fit a NON STANDARD bulb horn to a large motorcycle?I am not talking about veteran machines that used bulb horns as std.
 It seems to me you want to have your cake and eat it in you want mot testers to give latitude/be understanding on questionable vintage brakes and lights,oil leaks etc but when the latitude on regs in your opinion goes against you, it is wrong and the letter of the law must be followed!!! When i was an MOT tester i did not consider myself a policeman i was in my opinion a safety officer judging peoples motorcycles within the regulations from a safety perspective of the rider , other road users and pedestrians and i felt a very serious responsibility whilst doing it. I could fill a whole forum with stories of motorcyclists bringing in motorcycles with major faults and arguing with me that i was unreasonable failing them! To be honest i am glad i no longer have to do it.

[L.A.B.]

Mot regs are subject to quite wide tester discretion/interpretation and whilst the regs state a bulb horn may be used pre 1973 they also state;
a. a horn not working OR NOT LOUD ENOUGH to be heard by another road user and that means to me above engine noise as you are not likely to use it when the engine is off. As such i would fail a large motorcycle fitted with a buld horn as i would consider not fit for use unless exceptionally loud.

Well I did say "IF the bulb horn met the actual requirements of the test". And the majority of bulb horns I've heard are quite loud, louder than many electric horns which no doubt would be 'passed' by an MOT tester without a moment's hesitation.

I do not understand why you think it is okay to fit a NON STANDARD bulb horn to a large motorcycle?

Sorry, but this is a classic example of the MOT tester playing policeman,-or as you say "safety officer" (which of course he is not) yet again!

As I see it, the MOT tester's job is to check what does or does not constitute a pass or fail within the guidelines of the MOT test rules? And not to pass or fail a vehicle based on personal judgements about whether he thinks a bulb horn (or anything else) is inappropriate for a particular vehicle.  

[Rex]

Sorry, but this is a classic example of the MOT tester playing policeman,-or as you say "safety officer" (which of course he is not) yet again!
As I see it, the MOT tester's job is to check what does or does not constitute a pass or fail within the guidelines of the MOT test rules? And not to pass or fail a vehicle based on personal judgements about whether he thinks a bulb horn (or anything else) is inappropriate for a particular vehicle.

Absolutely, and I couldn't agree more!
As it happens, my bulb horn is a motorcycle one (rather than a kiddie's bike thing) and therefore designed for just this job. Also, it's as loud as some of those after-market 6V repros which are so common now.

But presumably some twerp MoT guy could fail it (for reasons given above) even though it's actually "better" than a cheap electric one.
Now tell me again about how the MoT tester only has my safety in mind.....

Apparently some testers are still failing bikes for no brake light  when applying for a daylight only MoT too; so there's more of them who either can't read the regs or think they know better....

[52t-bird]

Hello, We will obviously have to agree to disagree.

for my part enough said