Author Topic: What year is this Excelsior  (Read 9469 times)

Offline Blazers16

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
What year is this Excelsior
« on: September 29, 2009, 01:51:29 AM »
Hello...

I've just recently came into the posession of an Excelsior motorcycle that I figure is from the late 40s early 50s but I'm having trouble naily down the correct year in order to order parts etc. It has a 2 stroke villiers motor in it.

After cleaning it up I've managed to find a few numbers on the frame and engine but not sure which ones tell me the year of the bike. They are:

- Frame at the front steering column : OS/3808A (or could be 05)
- Frame under the seat : 1005
- Front of engine : 932 / 199781
- Carburetor : V648C
- Inside chaincase  : B7298
- Inside chaincase cover : 4576   B7297/1

I'm not sure where to go from here so any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Chris

Offline JFerg

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: What year is this Excelsior
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2009, 03:46:49 AM »
What you really need is a Villiers Nutter.
Unfortunately the resident VN, Bob, is still on vacation, but give him a week and you'll have a syruppy waxing of glee from him,  Excelsiors are his especial favourite!
JFerg

Offline Justin_Faithfull

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • ELEPHANTS - WHERE?
    • View Profile
Re: What year is this Excelsior
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2009, 08:00:49 PM »
The number on the front of the engine 932 / 199781 is the engine number. The 932 indicates a 1950/1 Villiers 10D engine used by OEC motorcycles on their models D1, S1 & C1. So perhaps the engine was removed from an OEC in the dim & distant past & put into your Excelsior.
I believe the model is the Universal U1 or U2. THe plunger rear suspension came in for the 1950 season.
As JFerg says, the resident Villiers Nutter will be much more helpful when he comes back.

Offline Blazers16

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: What year is this Excelsior
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2009, 01:22:08 PM »
Thanks for the replies so far. That is interesting to know about the engine swap theory. The sticker on the gas tank indicates that the Canadian Forces may have had this bike registered as it has a 4 digit number with CFB Petawawa on it which is a military base located near Ottawa, Ontario (Canada). I wonder if changing engines was common practice for the military. I look forward to the resident VN's response to this puzzle.

Offline 33d6

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1123
  • Karma: +27/-4
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: What year is this Excelsior
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2009, 11:51:46 PM »
Well, back from holidays and another Villiers question to answer. JustinF has given you the basic info all I can do is clarify things a little more. Little is known of exact Excelsior frame and engine numbers up to 1954 or thereabouts. possibly the VMCC marque specialist could tell you but its really not a great issue as like most British firms of the day Excelsior sold the same basic bike but installed either their own or Villiers engines of different capacities and gave it a different model name. In its day your bike was sold with the 122cc 10D Villiers engine, Excelsiors own 148cc engine or the 197cc 6E Villiers fitted. The only other difference lay in the quality of electric lighting fitted. The cheap model had direct lighting (brightened and dimmed as engine revs rose and fell) or rectified lighting with a battery that ensured both a consistent lighting level plus you could fit a stop light on the brakes.
As far as the engine number is concerned don't read too much into the fact that it has a 10D engine originally fitted to another make of bike.  Old Villiers stuff was so cheap for so many years that it was cheaper to replace an engine with another second hand engine from the wreckers rather than spend good money on rebuilding a worn out one. For that matter even if you went to a dealers and had a reconditioned exchange engine fitted there was no guarantee your replacement would have a appropriate engine number for your make of bike. Broadly speaking all 10D engines are the same, it doesn't matter what make of bike it was fitted in. A 10D engine is a 10D engine, the make of bike is pretty irrelevant.
Anyway, your bike looks very original except for the paint job of course, and should give you lots of fun.
You can get copies of all the necessary technical material, manuals, transfers, catalogues, etc from the english Vintage Motor Cycle Club. They have a website www.vmcc.net and are very helpful.
Cheers,

Offline 33d6

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1123
  • Karma: +27/-4
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: What year is this Excelsior
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2009, 07:40:35 AM »
I shouldn't write answers after just getting off the plane. The brain  turns to mush.
I have now woken up a bit and have hunted out some obscure Excelsior stuff I have and can now say that Excelsior used the letters DS as their 1950 frame number prefix. Is the OS/3808A really DS/3808A? They added a W in 1951 to WDS so as you describe a two figure prefix only it seems you have a 1950 model.
Also, just to stir the pot a little, the engine number prefix used on 10D powered Excelsiors exported to my home state of Victoria in 1950 was 932, the same prefix as used by OEC. How come OEC and Excelsior shared the same prefix I don't know. There could be many simple commercial explanations. As OEC were quite small time compared to Excelsior it could be something as simple as Excelsior just onselling some of their engines to OEC particularly as Excelsior had just started to manufacture their own 148cc engine for the same bike. Probably Excelsior had high hopes of their engine being more popular than the Villiers so they didn't need all the 10D engines they had bought. Who knows after all this time.
Whatever the story, back in the '50's the Victorian State Police regarded engines with a 932 prefix as Excelsior.
Cheers, jet lag joe.

Offline Blazers16

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: What year is this Excelsior
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2009, 02:11:35 PM »
Welcome back. Hope you had a great time away. Thanks for the fantastic information. It is greatly appreciated.

I took a closer look at the frame number and upon closer inspection it is a DS prefix... so that should just about confirm it. It is a 1950 Excelsior model with a 10D Villiers engine.

This information should assist in locating manuals etc. from vmcc as you've suggested.

Once again, thanks to you and everyone for your assistance. I may be back with other questions as the restoration project continues.

Cheers,

Chris