Trawling for Insight

[catenaccio]

Greetings and salutations learned gents.

I'm 28, currently coming off the back of the demise of a long term relationship (59, 000 miles and two continents) and I'm skint.

I'm spending far more time rebuilding and servicing friends Il4 Japanese machines these days than I do riding around.

This clearly has to stop!

Therefore I seek your cumulative insight ..

What classic motorcycle, British or otherwise, suitable to carry a 12st bloke, his kit bag and a bed roll can I seek out for under £500?

Obviously, for that money it will be absolutely mullered cosmetically and probably have a few pressing issues that need attention.

However, I'm a serial monogamist when it comes to bikes, had my last one for 9 years (a 1992 ZZR1100 C3) and covered half the planet on it.

My only requirements are: reliability (I don't consider regular servicing and tweaking as detracting from that, I merely need to get home when its raining or when I'm far far away), four strokes (ideally), spongey suspension (for long distance comfort) and a steady cruising speed of not less than 65 mph.

Can it be done? I really do only have £500 to spend and altho I anticipate lavishing thousands on whatever I finally get in the end over the next few years, I can't afford it now.

Does anyone have any advice?

I have already looked and ruled out:

Enfield (too expensive)
Triumph (a good one is £1500 min.)

I am looking at a 1977 Jawa on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3AAAQ%3AUK%3A1&viewitem=&item=250138267334&rd=1

Hopefully that will come in under £500. Fingers crossed!

Leaving me some cash left to tart it up and fix the inevitable pressing issue.

I'm also keeping my eyes peeled for an MZ. However I wanted something 'substanial' rather than a flyweight.

Does anyone on here recommend something specific, or indeed have something specific for sale?

Thanks in advance!

- Chris

[Goldy]

Under £500 and cruising speed of 65 mph. The answer is very simple.  No           You wil have to cruise at 40.

[catenaccio]

Forgive me if I mistaken, but the Jawa will do 65mph all day long.

And they cost a lot less than £500.  

In fact there's quite a lot of 250-350cc machines out there in this price range.

[L.A.B.]

Have you ever ridden/owned a Jawa before?

[catenaccio]

Nope.

[L.A.B.]

If you do get to ride one then I don't think you'd want to try and ride it at 65 MPH for long.

A Jawa would not be my chioce.

[catenaccio]

Can you qualify your statement; add some information, evidence, or qualitative insight in order to make it less generalized?

[L.A.B.]

The Jawa 350 was not a particularly enjoyable motorcycle to ride if I remember correctly, as they were rather poorly made and agricultural.
The (dynamo) lighting equipment, brakes, finish etc. not being very good.
40-45 MPH being the happiest cruising speed. I seem to remember it started to vibrate badly above that speed.

The Left side gearchange lever doubles up as the kickstart lever, which sounds like a good idea but is just a nuisance. The dual kick start/gear lever travel when in gear change mode was excessive.

Not a bike I'd be prepared to spend anywhere near £500 on personally.



  

[catenaccio]

What would you spend £500 on then?

I mean that would get me more or less any semi modern or modern Jap bike.

GPZ 500 S
Honda CG 125
Honda CX 500
Suzuki GN 250

etc etc.

What by way of classic 70's, 80's and early 90's iron?

A big 4t single would be nice.

I looked at the possibility of a Guzzi but the small bore one's were notoriously unreliable and I didn't fancy rebuilding the uv-joint and/or stripping the block down prior to putting some miles on it.

[L.A.B.]

What would you spend £500 on then?

A bit of an awkward question for me to answer, as I doubt there is anything that I would particularly want to buy (or expect to pay) in that price range.

You mentioned MZs earlier, they seem to have a cult following of enthusiasts, and they would appear to be reasonably built and fairly reliable (-except for the odd main bearing failure!) and pleasant to ride for a reasonable distance apparently, (I've never ridden an MZ).  
So if I needed a bike in that sort of price range then I might consider an MZ?
 A Japanese bike wouldn't really be on my list at all, I would much rather find a cheap old seventies BMW twin.

[catenaccio]

MZ's are ok, but they are too lightweight for moving around continents on. Good commuter bikes, but I wouldn't like to try and do 2, 000 miles on one.

That said, I would happily (and have!) do Spain on a Vespa.

Bizarre logic? Surely.

The only mitigating factor being I hand built the Vespa from crankcases up. So it was never in doubt.

Still ..

BMW's aren't my thing. They lack all vestige of soul or character. I'm a Valentino not a Schumacher sort of chap.

That and even 35 year old Beemers are being touted for more than I sold my trusty ZZR for last month ..

Arse over tit.

Maybe I should save up and buy a Triump and stop messing around eh?

Meh.

Guzzi G5 is my 'dream' bike. Cheapest example I could find was twice my budget tho ..

[L.A.B.]

MZ's are ok, but they are too lightweight for moving around continents on. Good commuter bikes, but I wouldn't like to try and do 2, 000 miles on one.


BMW's aren't my thing. They lack all vestige of soul or character. I'm a Valentino not a Schumacher sort of chap.

...Your requirements do appear to have changed somewhat from:

"My only requirements are: reliability (I don't consider regular servicing and tweaking as detracting from that, I merely need to get home when its raining or when I'm far far away),  four strokes (ideally), spongey suspension (for long distance comfort) and a steady cruising speed of not less than 65 mph. "

-Which doesn't really tie-in with you being a "Valentino" type of person, -yet you were considering a Jawa...oh well!. No doubt Valentino would need to consider a compromise if he had £500 to spend?
  

[Panzergranate]

The 350 JAWA dis have one redeming feature in their day.... They could out handle and out accelerate the likes of the Honda CB550 and Kawa Z550.

This is due to the massive 38 Pounds per Foot torque then engine chucks out coupled with a wide ratio gearbox.

I had one, a 1977 model, that cruised happily at 75 MPH all day, had a top speed of 96 MPH once the engine restrictor was bypassed, and was comfortable.

However the stock brake shoes, back in 1987, were abismal and so at any speeds over 45 MPH the bike was in no hurry to stop.

I used to race a guy on a HOnda CB550 every morning down the bypass and and twisty roads. He never won despite more and more manic riding.

My bike had 31,000 miles in the clock at the time and was all black. It was a winter hack whilst my 1979 Aprillia 350 twin was being rebulit.

Forget all the ignorant bullshit from folks who are just repeating the rubish printed in the bike magaizines over the years. Remember that the journoes had already written the test before riding the bikes.

The fact is that a JAWA or CZ will last longer than any other Japanese 2 stroke.  A friend has, so far, covered 114,000 miles on a TS 350 Type 632 model.

As a back up bike they're always handy.

The one I'm using at the moment has finally blown a big end out after 50,000 miles (rare on a JAWA engine) and did this aorund 2,000 miles ago. It is still running and still cruises at 70 MPH. However it now vibrates and ike a Harley!! It' has been a good hack for many years, so I'll probally treat it to another engine. It'll carry on like this for months.

They are built a lot stronger than any of the Japanese bikes I've ever owned of fixed.

The problem is that JAWAs go very well when serviced and set up properly. However, as with all bikes, it takes just one moron to fiddle and screw up the balance of an engine and a bike will go like shite.

Then someone has a go on the bike, who expects the bike to be bad, and things appear as expected.

The ignition is nearly always set up wrong and the exhaust system is always clogged.

The points should be set to fire at 2.8mm. BTDC. You'd be surprised how bad points settings affect any bike's performance.

Any JAWA 350 should be able to reach 40 MPH in 1st gear rapidly and want to cruise faster than 70 MPH. If not, it could either need a rebore (older than 20,000 miles) or have carb and point setting issues. Don't forget the exhausts either.

Always check JAWAs in top gear at maximum torque in top gear on a steep hill. It should trundle up any UK hill in top gear at 30 MPH due to the engine torque.

If the top gear tries to jump out, then  the gearbox final drive sprocket bearing is shot and forcing the gearbox to ride the selector forks. This is a simple repair but involves spliting the engine. If you're not a spanner weilding type, walk away and leave it to thse that are.

Spares abailabilty is excellent with many 3rd party companies offering pattern parts.

There is an active owners club, here in the UK, and similar in most counties in the world. Only in Britain did JAWAs have a bad press, because they we'ren't made in Japan and lasted more than 15,000 miles. Elsewhere, in the world, they were well though of.

The saying goes that you'll either like a JAWA or you've never owned one.

Be warned... once you have one JAWA, CZ, MZ , etc. you have complete strangers coming up and offering you another one for free. So you take the free bike for spares and fiddle with it and it'll come back to life. So you tax and MOT it and now you have two. And the next day a complete starnger sees you on it and offer you a free dead JAWA or CZ....

It called "Eastern Block Motorcycle Aquisition Syndrome.

There are never any owners of commie bikes who own just one example because of this.

I've never paid more than £100 for a two stroke JAWA or CZ and I'd expect it to be MOT ready for that money.

[L.A.B.]

The 350 JAWA dis have one redeming feature in their day.... They could out handle and out accelerate the likes of the Honda CB550 and Kawa Z550.

One redeeming feature only? (and the one I rode I doubt would have out-accelerated a restricted 125

This is due to the massive 38 Pounds per Foot torque

That output would seem to be considerably at odds with what is quoted in both the owner's handbook and Jawa workshop manual figures for a 634?  

Be warned... once you have one JAWA, CZ, MZ , etc. you have complete strangers coming up and offering you another one for free.

Unbelievable!

If they are so good why would people want to give them away??

[Panzergranate]

The people that usually give them away are older riders who aren't able to ride anymore or they've married and are not allowed to.

Some times they've inherretted the bike from a dead relative and don't ride motorcycles themselves.

The usual thing is a simple MOT failure and the owner just hasn't the skills to fix it up.

The fact that they will continue to run even with a ring gap of 4mm. (One I fixed this year for someone) and still make 65 MPH eventually.

My Type 632 outfit towing a Velorex 700 has a top speed of 89 MPH, though riding outfits at this speed is akin to flying a twin engined bomber on one engine.

It is more happy to cruise at 70 MPH on motorways and I set up the engine to do this.

The original JAWA 350 Type 634 had a small airbox and filter from the 1960's Californian model. This put out 22 BHP. Later ones churned out 28 BHP and had a better designed airbox system. These were the high torque models, as the earlier versions we'ren't up to the sidecar tug job.

I've had an early version, back in the early 1980's, and it made only 75 MPH top whack. However fitting a later carb and a K&N filter added another 20 or so MPH to this.

Like with all old bikes, they come in various conditions and states. However they should not go slow or be sluggish unless something is seriously wrong. If yours wouldn't out accellerate a 125 then it was seriously sick. In fine fettle a JAWA 350 will match speed with an aircooled RD 250 easily. Mine was better than my 22,000 mile Suzuki X7 on acceleration back then.

The workshop manual vary between models, as do technical specs. There were 7 different variants built over the years.

My only complaint with all the 1970's models I used was the abismal stock brakes. I forked out and replaced all the shoes with Ferrodo AM4 items. In the dry the brkae were as bad as 1970's Suzuki GT brakes in the wet!!

Yours sound like some of the bikes I've aquired that have clocked up a fair few miles and need a rebore. I've had both excelent, good and cronic plus a few terminal cases, but they all managed to run somehow, usually n defiance of the laws of motorcycle physics.

The best case was a 1973 CZ 250 a friend had turn up at his breaker's yard, which had last been on the road in 1975, according to the tax disc.

It was 1996 and in between this time it had laid on its side with a Privet hedge growing throughand around  it.

It was unloaded from the van and a small audience gathered to watch John work some magic on it.

It was seized solid.

In went the Coke-Cola and I helped him rock it backwards and forwards in 1st gear to free up the piston. Meanwhile bet were being placed as to wether he could make it run.

The engine eventually managed a complete revolution.

Next in went the Duck Oil and the bike was rocked again backwards a forwards and then run around the yard, plugs out in gear.

Then some petrol was poured into the carb, some petrol was poured down the plug holes and the plugs fitted.

Then it was push started and it fired up on one cylinder, closely foloowed by the other cylinder within a minute. JIhn then rode it around the yard showing off.

The crowd of punters was gob smacked and John rode back to state his belief that, quote, "JAWAs and CZs never die, they just hybernate between owners!!"

It kick started afterwards as well.

Another CZ 250 was found at the bottom of an old flooded quarry back in the 1990's, by some divers. It was about 50 feet down, the female owner (one of the divers) told me.

Anyhow, the bike was recovered and it actually still ran OK so they MOTed it and it passed. Despite being underwater for a number of years, the enamel paintwork and chrome had survived as well.

OK now would any other make of bike survive like this??

Definately nothing Japanese.

I find it easier to fix old JAWAs and CZs to fixing the occasional Jap bike that comes my way. Jap bikes are always an up mountain struggle as they seem to have inbuilt self destruct systems built in to bypass and override. Czech bikes are a stroll in the park when compared and just seem to have some immunity to corrosion. I wish that my Suzuki GT 550 B had the same ability.

The fact is that they are made of better materials and quite well engineered with the intention of lasting a very long time and being infinately repairable.

The majority of surviving everyday use two stroke motocycles from the 1970's and 1980's are JAWAs, CZs and MZs. They just outlived the competition.

You need to have a go on a sorted out JAWA and see how they should go.