Bike ID

[Trans]

Hi from NZ
Im working on a small 50s bike which I believe to be a Sun

I've confirmed that the engine is from a 54/55 FB (946/28293D)

The frame has the following numbers S147  (The s could be an these numbers are on the lower part of the frame.

On the steering head are the numbers : 3148A

Is anyone able to ID this for me ?

Thanks

[esometisse]

the engine that's fitted to your bike at the moment is a 197cc 6E Villiers unit that indeed started its career in a 1950 Francis-Barnett.
If such an engine was the original fitment to your frame and if you really have a Sun motorcycle, then it would be a 1951/1952 model Challenger de luxe and its frame number would begin with the letters PMC or RMC. So this doesn't tally with your findings.
A Sun Challenger of these years would have tele/plunger suspension.
Pictures?

Cheers
Andy

[Trans]

Hi Andy

Thanks for this. I'll try and get some photos
Kiaran

[Trans]

Hi Andy

These are the only photos I have at he moment. Trouble & Strife has the camera at work. Youll have to try and ignore the G80S !

Thanks
Kiaran

[33d6]

I suspect an early Ambassador Supreme. Officially announced for 1951 this was the top of the Ambassador range with rear plunger springing. Your frame numbers sort of hit the bill with the S prefix but in the 1950-51 period Ambassador also revised their numbering system so there is a degree of vagueness particularly of course with export models as all of us who live outside England know..
Theoretically Ambassador frame numbers can be found as follows
Pre 1951- on the rear subframe, sometimes near the rear wheel spindle
1951-59- on the lug at the upper rear of the main frame loop, below the saddle
Information courtesy of "A Guide to Ambassador Motor Cycles" by Michael Easton & Fred Hibbert
Tell us what you find.
Cheers,

[Trans]

Ive had another look at the locations reccommened and have come up with a number just below the saddle : S152

Would this make it a Jan 52 Ambassador. Im posting a better picture.

[33d6]

Yes, it's an Ambassador Supreme but a very curious one. Those front forks with the oddball headlamp brackets are Ambassadors own and only fitted in 1950. Theoretically they were never used on the Supreme but there they are, large as life.
I suspect you have the standard "colonies" model made up from a collection of factory God wot and probably early 1951.
For the benefit of our English friends a 'colonies 'model is one made up from whatever is left in the stores after the English selling season is over. These models bear no resemblance to anything catalogued by the factory but are a combination of the left overs of one year and the new bits from the next year and are all exported to markets that are too far away to complain.
I chatted about this with a Swedish rider at an International rally one year. He roared with laughter and said the Swedes thought they were the only one who got this sort of mix'n'match models. He was very happy to find English factories did it to everyone.
Anyway, I mentioned Mick Easton as the author of 'A Guide to Ambassador Motor Cycles'. His email address is mick.easton@hotmail.co.uk I'm sure he can be of great help to you.
Cheers,
 

[Trans]

Hey thanks so much for this !

[64hip]

Hi Trans
Sorry to pour a bit of cold water on things, but from what I have read above and from your photos, I'm not convinced that it is a Supreme. My feeling is that the numbers you have quoted are probably just lug casting numbers. As 33d6 mentions, the frame number should be stamped just below the saddle on the flywheel side of the bike. If it is an Ambassador, (in 1951/52) it should start with a letter and then be followed by seven or eight numbers. I agree that there are quite a few similarities between your bike and a 1951 Supreme, but equally there are a few key differences, the main one for me, being the rear plungers which are ever-so-slightly different in design to the Ambassador versions. Also, your seat post looks to come up above the sloping line of the rear frame tubes, as though it has provision to fit a seat post. Ambassador frames of this period did not have this and featured a lug which just curved around to join the tubes behind and above the engine. I agree that the headlamp bracket does share a similarity with those used on the 1950 Ambassador Series V, but your forks are not those as featured on that model.
See if you can find that frame number - that will confirm things, in terms of it being an Ambassador or not. Happy to send you further information.
Regards
Michael
PS - my email address has changed and is now ambassadorguide@gmail.com
 

[darloman]

Hi I have only ever seen this type of suspension on Sun motorbikes. The photo is one of the plungers off one of our bikes. Hope this helps.

[darloman]

Sun plunger suspension

[darloman]

Hope this helps.