Vincent Black Shadow mo'bike:1953 model.

[qwerty]

Okay, thanks Rex (are you sure you're a king?)... snigger.

I've seen  a photo of the (1945) Sarolea 1000cc and it's just right, it looks as though there's a choke on the left handlebar, but I need to know if it has a 'key' ignition?  When were keys introduced?

The transmission looks to be 'rod' rather than chain, can that be right?

Welsh Wizard, yup, BSA for the brother's m/cycle.

[rogerwilko]

I think you've all been sucked in to a windup!!

[qwerty]

No it's genuine. If you have any doubt this is how it started.

http://www.writingforums.com/research/121636-vincent-black-shadow-mobike-1953-model.html
I've been a member there for four years. I got nil replies and one PM suggesting I try a specialist site.

So, anyone know when ignition keys became standard and were they in use on the (1945) Sarolea 1000cc?

My guess is they weren't. So soon after the war manufacturing capability would have been limited and innovative specification unlikely. Cars of that era would have door locks and push button starters.

[R]

Lesson 2 in how to steal a moidasickle ?

[yebbut]

A Belgian in Spain since 1945? what was he a collaborator/black marketeer/ war criminal on the run?

Sounds dodgy to me.

I have had a lot of dealings with bikes in Spain, and indeed the peak of my dealings was in 1977-19 just after the fall of Franco.

You are up against several problems of credibility here;

After the civil war ended Franco put a block on all imports and of motor vehicles and spare parts especially. So by 1972  a hell of a lot of bikes were very badly butchered indeed just to keep them on the road.
Some were smuggled in, a lot of older stuff had been "modernised" locally, but also there were several home grown makes of small bikes, Bultaco, Montesa, Ossa   and four stroke Sanglas etc

I would suggest therefore you have a choice of pre war OHV Norton singles, the Spanish forces used these, also believe it or not OHC velos.

But, more believably I think a pre war or ex Wehrmacht BMW would be much more believable, lots left there, or a home grown Sanglas 500cc single as used by Spanish police.

Older stuff except the BMW would be magneto ignition, others would be battery and likely flat.

Any  large Belgian bike would have had to be pre war and therefore worn out. Of course there is the choice of some several tasty french bikes, Terrot, Motobecane, I think the credibility of a Vincent in Spain in the pre 72 era unlikely.

I exported a lot of bikes to Spain at that time, never saw or heard of a Vincent there, just about everything else though as before Franco Spain was a big Market for Brit exports.

A 1000cc Sarolea? thats a new one on me, after 1945 they made a 500 Sarolea Atlantic twin, I think it was, only a handful though and shortly after they were more or less defunct.

[R]

There is actually a pic of a 1000cc Sarolea on this very website.

http://www.vintagebike.co.uk/pictures/1945-sarolea-1000cc/

New one on me, I'd call that a very rare bike.
Or a BMW in disguise, although its not.

Ignition keys didn't generally appear until the mid 1950s, at least.
Before then it was often hard enough to start your own bike ? (jist kiddin).

hth

P.S. a bit of ferreting around reveals the above bike pic has lost its muffers, and from the model number may be a 1939 model,  so may not be a perfect example of the genre. ?

http://www.hd-classic.be/en/moto_civil_detail.asp?id=332&NAV=1

[qwerty]

A Belgian in Spain since 1945? what was he a collaborator/black marketeer/ war criminal on the run?

Sounds dodgy to me. I have had a lot of dealings with bikes in Spain, and indeed the peak of my dealings was in 1977-19 just after the fall of Franco. You are up against several problems of credibility here;.

The character is based on Leon Degrelle, (loads of google stuff) who would have been about 66 in 1972. He was admired by Franco and enjoyed priveleges and importing a m/cycle would not have been difficult.  In my version he lives in remote campo near Estepona in Andalucia. For the purpose of the plot, and because he is a bit old to ride m'cycles, I have decided he has restored this classic m/cycle. The escaping male and female steal it.

After the civil war ended Franco put a block on all imports and of motor vehicles and spare parts especially. So by 1972  a hell of a lot of bikes were very badly butchered indeed just to keep them on the road.

Agreed, in another part of the plot I make reference to this. (I was there 1971-77) A common sight was to see women on the pillion of decrepit machines, riding sidesaddle!

I like the OHC Velo, I had settled on the Sarolea but I am worried that it might not be chain driven (plot purposes).

Good input, thanks.

Any  large Belgian bike would have had to be pre war and therefore worn out.

I believe the Sarolea was used extensively as a sidecar vehicle during the war therefore must have been in prolific production, (but not the version in the picture R refers to... looking at the picture would you say it was chain drive?).

[yebbut]

Well I found the 1000cc Sarolea, a new one on me, which on one link says about 10 produced, and very few of the sidecar drive ones which I very much doubt could have been in prolific production in an occupied country in war time?

The Belgian motorcycle industry never really recovered after the war ; that Sarolea is shaft driven, as were most German machines so that would rule out those for your purpose.

As in that era the most admired motorcycles  around the world were British, believe it or not, and BSA and Norton were the two most likely to be found in Spain I would suggest one of those, does it have to be 1000cc machine, size is not necessarily synonymous with power in older machines, a good 500 would see off any doggy old side-valve V twin and any American bike such as Harley or Indian [too cliched anyway]

If you must have exotica how about a French Rene Gillet 750 V twin, and I think Coil ignition so easy to start or maybe even a Scott? Scotts had rapid acceleration, plenty of chains to break, and a distinctive exhaust note, I know there are a couple in Spain as I took one there myself!
 
FN made a superb four cylinder bike which was in production through the 1930s, another possibility for you?

PS
yers, just did a quick google, I wasn't far off the mark at all was I? murky business Spanish politics;
one thing I would say,  Motorcyclists generally  tend to disregard politics and or  nationality in the their loyalty to a bike marque, save Japanese which is a whole different field altogether.

[qwerty]

As in that era the most admired motorcycles  around the world were British, believe it or not, and BSA and Norton were the two most likely to be found in Spain I would suggest one of those, does it have to be 1000cc machine, size is not necessarily synonymous with power in older machines, a good 500 would see off any doggy old side-valve V twin and any American bike such as Harley or Indian [too cliched anyway]

I can see I'm tying myself in a knot here.  The male doesn't know dick about M/cycles and the female has ridden her brother's BSA Bantam and that's the extent of her knowledge.

Maybe I'd better stick to BSA's or Norton's. I want it to be an easy starter as long as you know where to switch the petrol on etc.  It should be a bit of a beast, too much of a handful for an eight stone female with limited experience. It needs to be something that would have appeal to an enthusiastic restorer. That's narrowed it down. Any suggestions?


Thanks everybody for the input.

[yebbut]

The male doesn't know dick about M/cycles   

In which case he would not be likely to chose a bike as a means of escape? can he ride a bike already? I would think that he'd have been nabbed before he could start any kind of single, much less get a good start without stalling it.

It all smacks a bit of Hollywood  BS where the hero jumps onto the nearest, usually trick bike, and becomes Evel Knievel.

Is it important that the bike has been restored? also be aware that us weird motorcyclists will restore anything that takes their fancy, I've done Mobylettes, maybe you should go back to  consider a Spanish bike  such a Montesa? 250  single two stroke, easy to start, mind you, you could be confronted with a left hand kickstart that kicks forward instead of back?

 A Sanglas might be better, any 250 2 stroke would be capable of carrying two, the Bultacos and Montesas could be made quite rapid, but then you are into the starting problem again..........

you man will be dead  by the time he gets on the bike, he'd do better to leg it.......
maybe you should re-write his biography a bit?

Nothing makes a story more laughable than poor research, I am trying hard to remember the name of the last yarn I read where a bike was involved in a getaway, riding a crashed Triumph two up through a forest at speed on two flat tyres............... yeh right.


Put them in  a sports car is the easy option. or a taxi or a bus, or a tandem

[Rex]

My vote would be for a Spanish donkey to escape on.

{Cue- "how many legs has it got? What colour would be most common? "Does it eat anything".... }

[qwerty]

The male doesn't know dick about M/cycles   

The girl drives the m/cycle.

Put them in  a sports car is the easy option. or a taxi or a bus, or a tandem

The only other alternative was an 'orse.

[yebbut]

'orse would be quicker............

the girl would be complaining about getting dirty..........

My angle would be to have them set light to the bike, and make it something really rare and expensive, the owner , if a true motorcyclist, would be more likely to look out for his pride and joy than chase after the other two.   

BTW  you haven't yet as far as I can see but please don't call them bikers at any time, not only is it a modern term, but most of us consider it derogatory.

[Bomber]

If her only experience was with a Bantam (2 stroke).... bigger stuff (4 stroke) would be beyond her understanding... just a thought.

[qwerty]

BTW  you haven't yet as far as I can see but please don't call them bikers at any time, not only is it a modern term, but most of us consider it derogatory.

This is a joke, right? Sarcasm is very difficult in print you have to give me a clue that your not joking.

If her only experience was with a Bantam (2 stroke).... bigger stuff (4 stroke) would be beyond her understanding... just a thought.

Yes, I had considered that. Conflict is very important in a plot, she doesn't manage very well...oh, there's a storm as well...  a group of facists are after them... and... boy, they shoulda' taken the 'orse.