Pope? Indian? military twin engine bike and motor

[kellylazaro@sbcglobal.net]

This bike has been covered up by a tarp (unfortunately outside) for at least 50 years.  The twin engine has been stored in a barn.  Original owner's son said he thought it was military, and either a Pope or an Indian.  Any help identifying would be great.  Value? Interest?  I can't seem to post pics..Send e-mail and I will forward as many as needed.

[kellylazaro@sbcglobal.net]

I found a pic that matches, if it helps.  Our bike is not in this condition, it is rusty and needs restoration.  But frame and components match.

[esometisse]

well the pic you found shows a 1919 Excelsior which is neither a Pope nor Indian.
For the eye of the uninitiated all early American V-twin bikes can look similar.
Indian and Pope bikes of this era have much more rounded gas tanks which could help identification.
Also there should be some manufacturers markings on the crankcases - Hendee Mfg.Co. for Indian and Pope for Pope.

Pictures would definitely help, though!

Cheers
Andy

[R]

If indeed the Excelsior BigX 1917 picture is a match for your bike, there was a 'military' version of this bike in the late teens 1917-1919 - although they weren't actually sold to any armies, they didn't get a contract, they were just painted to look military.
They can usually be dated by the frame number, stamped under the seat, and are quite collectible, all electric models especially so.  Restored ones can bring mildly hefty prices, although parts are tough to come by to get them perfect - most you see are usually cobbled up remnants. However, fairly original complete intact ones are surprisingly common, for a make that didn't sell anywhere near the volume like Indians or Harleys.

As mentioned though, Indian Harley etc also did bikes that are reasonably similar to look at, its the fine detail that distinguishes them - and the specific year of manufacture.

[esometisse]

Kelly - got the pics of your bike. I hope it's okay if I share them here - if I manage to upload them, that is.
What you have is in my opinion an Excelsior frame and cycle parts - IŽd say from a model 15/3 of around 1915.
The engine is clearly an ioe (pocket valve) Indian of the same time or maybe even a little earlier - it still has the Indian carburettor.
If the engine ever was in the frame is doubtful, though. I think it was maybe once intended as a replacement for the original Excelsior item but the conversion never completed.
"R" has given a good sumup as to desireability and worth of the parts you have. It now depends on the condition of the individual items. The tank is clearly gone, for example. This may be true for some of the cycle parts as well - only close inspection will reveil this.
I think the engine is in pretty good shape from the outside - this alone will fetch you some serious money.

Hope this helps

Cheers
Andy

[R]

Andy has summed it up well.
Early Indian stuff usually brings a small fortune, especially if in good restorable condition, and that Indian carburettor will certainly get some interest, as will the engine if sold complete with it.  Since it is highly likely that the engine could not have been in that frame, better to separate them and let the Indian folks argue over the final price, and see if there is much interest in the BigX frame and cycle parts. (Indians and Harleys are generally top of the tree, price wise)(ie bring more).(If an Indian enthusiast bought the whole lot together, there is a danger the BigX stuff may be scrapped, since few have interests in more than one make).

Incidentally, don't let anyone sit on the frame like that - without the engine to strengthen it, they can bend or crack.
This goes for most diamond type frames like that.  Cheers.

[kellylazaro@sbcglobal.net]

Thanks for the information everyone.  As I said, this is not our realm   Where do you sell items like these?  We have a few more parts- possibly another engine that may have origionally been on the excellsior.  The excellsior is in sand blastable condition, with the exception of the tank.

Indian Engine identifiers- (will any of this help establish what year etc..?)
9ef037
Hedstrom Motor
The Henee MFG CO
Springfield MASS

[R]

Ebay Motors will give you the best coverage - and ensure it goes to an enthusiast (with deep pockets !)
eg.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/270561007762

That Indian engine number, and name, isn't quoted correctly ?
Have a careful look.

[Matt]

PM me your price for the whole lot including what ever other parts you find.
Where abouts are you?

[R]

As you can see, folks you don't even know will offer you wads of cash for old Indian parts.
The only sure way to get what its worth is to put it on ebay and let the auction sort it out. ?

[Matt]

He isnt wrong about strangers making you offers Kelly!
I always offer wads of cash for v twin stuff.
If anyone happens to know of a McEvoy or parts for one laying about I have a really big wad of cash waiting.

[esometisse]

Indian Engine identifiers- (will any of this help establish what year etc..?)
9ef037

It is a 1914 7hp Hendee ioe twin with 61cu.inch displacement (1000cc)
The "F" in the serial number denotes the year 1914.
Instead of the "E", there should be a digit, though - but it doesn't really matter, only if you want to know exactly how many Indian engines were manufactured that year before yours got its turn (would be around 20,000something).

Cheers
Andy