Author Topic: BSA A65 Lightening  (Read 17021 times)

Offline JDS

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BSA A65 Lightening
« on: October 29, 2011, 11:47:50 AM »
Hi...Newbie here. Just bought an 1969 A65L to refurb. Not had a bike for many years and fancied another project. I live in Bucks and would like to locate anyone who has a similar bike that is willing to give me advice ...as and when. Also to get info from you experienced peeps as to where to get parts etc. Getting it back to the frame at the moment ready to start..... Q...is the frame supposed to be painted, enamled or will powder coating be ok?
Thanks 

Offline L.A.B.

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Re: BSA A65 Lightening
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2011, 04:04:05 PM »
L.A.B.

Offline Goldy

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Re: BSA A65 Lightening
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2011, 04:56:10 PM »
Hi JDS and welcome.  I think that BSA just used simple cellulose paint. Today most seem to want to go for powder coating and thats fine, but I just use smooth Hamerite spray and get great results, they really have improved the quality of spray cans, it,s really you choice.   BSA suppliers as already listed plus  http://www.suprememotorcycles.co.uk/    Supreme have a wide range of parts and   http://www.srmclassicbikes.com/    SRM are very good for the high quality engineering parts but they are expensive.
 All the best with it Goldy

johnnyboy-wonder57

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Re: BSA A65 Lightening
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2011, 09:08:46 PM »
Hmm,
I knew someone who stripped down his 650cc BSA unit construction twin, to make a special, its started off as a Lightning but ended up as Lightening!

With much less bulk,  it was faster than the original bike, just shows you, that bike names mean less than one would presume!


Cheers

John

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Offline R

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Re: BSA A65 Lightening
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2011, 12:30:41 AM »
Be careful of paint names ?  The English use the word "cellulose" very loosely, its acrylic lacquer in the rest of the world. Chips and scratches easily.
Cellulose is for guitars and furniture and fingernails. And T-Model Fords.

BSA would likely have used a sprayed enamel by that stage, probably of the baked variety (heat lamps) and with something to harden it. Your choice. Powdercoat looks like plastic, and is difficult to repair if required, and even to fix minor damage. Your choice.

johnnyboy-wonder57

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Re: BSA A65 Lightening
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2011, 09:03:13 AM »
From the Web,
Nitro cellulose, it was replaced with acrylic lacquer in the 50's. Acrylic lacquer is still made by Dupont (under the name Lucite, this is the original acrylic lacquer)

You can still find English "cellulose" if you search around especially if you trawl through restorer's  type websites, this type of paint is the one "home" restorers use, or used to use; on a petrol tank, after getting rid of any trace of fuel before the final spray, blow through the tank with a  hot hair-drier , once primed the undercoat to your satisfaction, then spray whilst the tank is hot to touch this will stop an effect known as blooming where a few seconds/ minutes,(depending on ambient air temperature), after spraying the paint starts to look like you have breathed on it,  this is caused by a rapid cooling effect of cold metal on the paint.

Wooden heated sheds are the best to spray in, with a blown air heater on first and of course adequate ventilation!

The Home Sprayer's manual....


John


JBW

 

Offline Rex

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Re: BSA A65 Lightening
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2011, 09:42:47 AM »
I don't know what the rest of the world do, but if he lives in Bucks then he should be aware that cellulose and acrylic paints are NOT compatible and mixing causes no end of problems.
Hammerite is cellulose based and is great for the small home user, but blasting, rubbing down etc is such a chore that for frames etc powder coating is the way to go. There's a firm in Slough who charge £70 + VAT for a frame etc.
I think "R" is referring to stove enamelling which although still available, isn't cheap or common now.

Offline R

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Re: BSA A65 Lightening
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2011, 11:07:06 PM »
R is referring to powder coating as powder coating. Which is plastic.
There is powder coating and powder coating.
Pick a good one then.

P.S. Name a not-recent british manufacturer that used powdercoat ?



Offline Rex

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Re: BSA A65 Lightening
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2011, 10:55:02 AM »
BSA would likely have used a sprayed enamel by that stage, probably of the baked variety

That sounds like a definition of stove enamelling to me, and indeed, that's what BSA used back then.
I did pick a good one, in Slough; that's quite near Bucks.
I don't know of any British manufacturer who  used powder coating. Is it important?
These questions, is it due to a language problem?

yebbut

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Re: BSA A65 Lightening
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2011, 02:21:52 PM »
Powder coating is  100% crap. >:(

Great on Dexion shelving which is all it's good for.

But,
amateurs will insist on using it. ::)

which is why an amateur restoration stands out a mile from a pro one.

Offline JDS

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Re: BSA A65 Lightning
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2011, 04:48:45 PM »
Hi all
Thanks for your welcome notes and info. ( spelling error amended ) will do a bit of shopping and looking around. If, god forbid, i suspect the frame may be a bit out of line, is there a recomended company that can check and straighten if necessary. I am still stripping  at he moment and see that with the headstock all aligned with the frame the forks out of line, thus the wheel slightley turned. Till i get the forks out and stripped i wont know if one is a bit out of true. Thanks all.

Offline Bomber

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Re: BSA A65 Lightening
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2011, 11:21:16 PM »
I must admit, I have had frames prepped and finished in all three ways, I have seen some really poorly powder coated frames but on the other hand I have a friend in Yorkshire (no good to you) who does a stunning job. I have paid a fortune for stove enamelling and been disappointed too... but Iv'e had an equally stunning job done this way also. I have had simply painted frames that look the 'bulldogs hairy swingers' ... the choise has to be down to you.

'Rivet counters' would never dream of having anything but what the manufacturer originally had, if you are not of this persuasion I would suggest you look at the spec of the finish and see what fits your needs

Frank
If iver tha does owt for nowt alus duit for thissen

johnnyboy-wonder57

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Re: BSA A65 Lightening
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2011, 10:21:01 AM »
What we call Cellulose in Blighty is in fact Nitro-cellulose the confusion comes in because across the pond they abandoned using it much earlier than we did here in the UK. Nitro-cellulose uses thinners, firms like Valentine's use to produce the thinners, however, a mate told me that you could in the past get a device called a "Hotpot", it had a kettle type element in it & you screwed into your spray gun, it heated up the cellulose so that it could be sprayed without thinners, in his words the finish was beautiful.

Nitro-cellulose can use as much as 50% thinners when applying the mix, thinners aren't exactly good for the environemtn & can be difficult to control when trying to get a uniform finish, with nitro-cellulose you build up your spray thinness by careful application of thin layers.
However, this is no excuse to have a drab coloured bike, which is visually displeasing, I could never understand the British manufacturers, giving bikes exotic names and then spraying them colours about as visually exciting as poo! Specialists, usually linked to restorations can supply special polishes and I presume protective coats that can be put over  some finishes.
Nitro-cellulose may fade, oxidise, chip & scratch but it is re-touch-upable and can be "T"- cutted to a brilliant finish as many would know, the best non-fading pigments are greys and greens, usaully the drab colours, the worst for fade are reds & oranges, yellows, blue is somewhere in the middle depending on the shade of colour, this used to be the non-professional route for the home-restorer.
Metallic, polychromatic & pearlescent finishes are excellent for visible impact, legislation against cellulose paints came in because of volatile organic compounds, (VOCS) being released in the thinners.

Now we have paints like Two-pack acrylic enamel, replacing them,  releasing isocyanates & which in process are more like  Araldite-type hardener reactions in the way the components interact with one another,  but full of of serious toxins, you need expensive cabin, ventilation, heating & breathing equipment to do the job without risking your health!  Advantages, tough, relatively inert & extremely hard wearing
Apparently, there are/maybe some non-isocyanate hardened Two-Pack, which would eventually be ideal for the home restorer , someone out there may know where & how to get hold of them.

Good rust treatments in volume are hard to get hold of,  Phosphoric acid is more difficult to buy these days because of Al-Qaeda's little exploits. The best black home finish I ever got on a frame, was a new synthetic gloss applied by a good quality paint brush, I heated the paint tin up in a bucket of boiling water, it was so black & shiny, when it reflected light from a distance it looked white, the only draw back was it was much softer than stove enamel, but it could be touched up on frame parts, problem is I can't remember who produced it, but people used to come up to me & asked what i had used to get the finish & were surprised it hadn't been professionally done.

Home restoration can be fun!

Cheers

John

JBW



yebbut

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Re: BSA A65 Lightening
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2011, 10:58:55 AM »
Phosphoric acid form this guy on ebay, also otehr stuff

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/250831891114?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

there is another firm in Eire which sells all sorts of useful chemicals on ebay, I have used both, found them A1 to deal with and reputable firms.

Offline RichP

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Re: BSA A65 Lightening
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2011, 09:02:30 PM »
I used an isocyante-free 1-pack on my WD bike and it has been a diasppointment as it is not resistant to ethanol in fuel. Any dribble softens the paint instantly.

The best finish for frames in my opinion is to let a professional do it with a good quality 2-pack.

If you do go the powder-coat route (I did once, never again) then make sure that you mask off all areas that are critical to fit or you'll spend a week chipping it away to get the swing-arm in and the head bearings fitted. All threads must be thoroughly blocked with screws or plugs.