Author Topic: Slimline featherbed  (Read 24868 times)

johnnyboy-wonder57

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Slimline featherbed
« on: March 08, 2012, 04:14:03 PM »
Hi,
Anyone know of a place I could get a copy of a blue-print for a slimline featherbed-frame, also is there a practical limit on the power of the engine, the frame can contain happily without mishap?

All sorts of power units have been put in FB's, some people on some forums hint that above 50-60bhp you may have trouble!  An all alloy Hillman Imp engine & a Norton gearbox was my plan!

Bomber of course will be asked to be in consultation when he has time.
Any thoughts?


Cheers

 JBW

Offline rogerwilko

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Re: Slimline featherbed
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2012, 08:32:06 PM »
Why bother, everything's been done before?

Offline Bomber

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Re: Slimline featherbed
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2012, 09:30:56 PM »
You know my thoughts JBW... get on with it!
If iver tha does owt for nowt alus duit for thissen

johnnyboy-wonder57

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Re: Slimline featherbed
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2012, 10:37:36 AM »
Roger..Reason
                             1; I haven't yet done a project quite like this myself, that is building a "special" Special, with real engineering problems & solutions;
                             2; Individual builders usually build, (if they have the brains to do it), better machines that what came out of the factories, through often Company budget cuts & consequent under-engineered products & a seemingly pathological aversion by the factories to upgrade their products and making them better by curing inherent faults, often demanded by loyal but frustrated customers, (such as too small final-drive chains, inadequate  electrical systems, puny brakes, pressed- steel Primary covers, weak Swinging -Arms, barely adequate rear shocks), to name but a few engineering/production/ weaknesses.  Incorporating modern materials make the machine more robust & better engineered for modern roads!
                           3; There's nothing like they feeling you get,  when you have built up the machine and the day comes to fire it up & breathe life in the machine & IT "LIVES" & runs & moves off down the road!  Created by one's fair hands & brain;
                          4; Because money is tight & I am personally not willing too spend what was a small fortune, not long ago; but is rapidly, becoming a increasingly ridiculously large fortune on an over-inflated priced, restored "Classic";  South Sea Bubble situation?
                         5; When I was younger,  true motor-cycling was about, riding, restoring, racing and re-building & often re-engineering, sorry, but I was exposed to the VMCC @ a tender age!
                         6; Personal satisfaction, & a pride in what I possibly can achieve, remember, no two specials are alike, & a slight arrogance that I can do things better with hind-sight than the factories!
                         7; Turning a 1970's School-boys dream, (almost long-forgotten 40 years later), into a reality.
                          Roger, you really do leave yourself wide-open, have you built a special then?

                        Bomber; Point taken!
                        Only cash flow, delays the project, whilst  the realisation that at least half of my natural time on Earth has passed me by, ( barring unforseen circumstances),  this spurs me on to make the best of it & have some fun eventually running a bike of my own manufacture, hopefully by 2013.  I figure from 80-100 life may be more difficult so everything physical needs to be done in the next two & a half decades!  Although Governments Fuel policies could scupper said plans for  FUN in the future, as prices rise almost as fast as Classic bikes. Economic  situation, predicted  £7 a gallon, by Easter?


Cheers


JBW

Offline Rex

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Re: Slimline featherbed
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2012, 01:26:10 PM »
Pretty compelling arguments there, JBW. I suppose it's the same for most builders/restorers, that sense of satisfaction you get when "it lives and breathes and I made it happen" moment arrives and that alone makes it all worthwhile.
"All be done before" is a bit strange though. On that basis we all may as well just curl up and die.
Best of luck with it, moreso as you appear to have realised your own mortality and the clock's ticking... ;)

Offline runesika

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Re: Slimline featherbed
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2012, 02:36:40 PM »
I have to say i'm not to keen on the look of the imp engine , i would rather see a Hesketh v twin lump or even a Honda CBX six as they are engines already made to be looked at .
 But it's your time and money so if you even fancy a diesel sludge pump engine in it ,go for it !

johnnyboy-wonder57

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Re: Slimline featherbed
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2012, 05:17:00 PM »
runesika,
The castings are a lovely & surprisingly light, its a British product, from the clutch end, the engine is heavily  shrouded, but some work on designing a casting & covers for the primary side, make the engine more aesthetically appealing , the fact that you bolt the sump to the frame, means you can be creative too, my intention is to angle the engine forward, like a Rocket Three, 15 degrees or maybe @ an angle greater than this, depending on the room in the FB frame; hence, saving Cornflake packets for templates!

One of the neatest car-engine bikes, I have ever seen in print, used a four-cylinder NSU Prinz engine mated to the sump of a Ford Anglia!

Perhaps design a smaller- version crankcase- cover /sump like on the Panther 100 with heavy finning underneath.  Most engine geometries, on British bikes are either, egg-shaped, triangular , oval or round, its a case of working out on the Camshaft -side what will fit and appeal to the eye @ the same time.

I even had a idea about rubber- mounting the engine aka isolastic mounts, if the drive on the right-side of the crank is used  for the alternator of water-pump a wing-shaped casting/casing will lend itself  to the design. Most water-cooled engines are not as appealing as air-cooled ones, look @ the Ducati range!

A modified all alloy car-engine, gives some advantages, low-down torque, which can be adjusted to where you want it in the rev band, proper filtration, low-state of tune that can be adjusted, Weber carburation, plenty of pre-manufactured goodies & mods, fairly cheap spares,  plentiful tuners, & reduced stress of only having to move, (hopefully), a fully fuelled-up 450lb (max) solo motorcycle.

Seeing the Imp engine owed a lot in design to the S7/S8 Sunbeam unit  which was the inspiration for the Coventry-Climax FWM (A) unit, which Mike Parkes selected as the basis for the Imp, it has links to the motorcycling world.
Further, research & development was carried out by Leo Kuzmicki, who worked with Joe Craig on Manx Norton's & was probably influential on the Norton-4 racer project, shelved in 1955/56

If the Imp-engine hadn't been forced into production too soon by meddling Politicians, the Rootes group may have been still in production today.

Lack of foresight by British motorcycle Companies allowed an opportunity to slip by, a 4- cylinder engine, modified & based round an FWM(A), could have been in production by the mid-sixties, being SOHC & over-square, it would have been a good start for the British Factories, to fend off the challenge from the land of the Rising Sun.

Incidentally the Imp engine main Achilles heal, was cooling,  is not so much of a primary concern once in a motorcycle frame, increased air-flow across the cross-flow radiator, increased coolant capacity, oil-capacity & a thermostatically controlled oil-cooler, all should add up to an engine working well below its natural stress levels, which should lead to increased longevity of service.

The main reason is though it will be something different , maybe not too pretty- pretty, but attractive if you look beyond the glistening chrome of the four exhaust pipes!


Cheers


JBW

Offline runesika

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Re: Slimline featherbed
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2012, 09:26:55 PM »
Well JBW you sound like you have more than made your mind up .
That's what i call a full answer !   

Wishing you good luck with the project .   Runesika

Offline Rex

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Re: Slimline featherbed
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2012, 09:56:55 PM »
What's it like getting parts for Imp engines though? They must have been out of production for close on forty years now?

Offline Bomber

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Re: Slimline featherbed
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2012, 08:04:42 PM »
Here's my feeble effort, rally head which has been gas flowed, rally cam, probably putting out about 60 to 70 bhp and handling sweet as a nut. I love it to bits





If iver tha does owt for nowt alus duit for thissen

johnnyboy-wonder57

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Re: Slimline featherbed
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2012, 06:14:34 PM »
Rex,
Not as difficult as I initially thought!  Its the parts for racing and Sports cylinder heads that cost the bigger money1
I picked up a Mark 2 cylinder block & cylinder head off ebay in 2009, a crankshaft in another cylinder block @ the Imp annual event, I picked up a cylinder block, sump- plate crankshaft, cam cover, cam plate & various valves, buckets & shims, & another,  later cylinder head, pistons & con' rods, again on ebay & met the guy @ Lydden race circuit, no postage charges, even!

I hope to have two-engines, one spare, in case the main engine has a problem!  An ex- sidecar racer, who raced Vincents & Imp-engined units, gave me a later modified cam-box cover, which sorts out engine breathing. For motorcycle use the stronger Mark 2 Imp engine is the one to use, however, the later oil-drain pipe, Imp cylinder-head is easiest to tune, if you are unwilling to part with the "wonga" for a genuine Sports head!

The Talbot B1 engine has the strongest cylinder block, but has a less  potentially potent  design of  cylinder-head for tuning. A Sports distributor and Lumention ignition system, coils & leads should be used for trouble free running.

There are numerous tuners and engine builders & Bomber has met one @ an event somewhere!

The mistake I made is not buying the Norton frame 3 years ago, when I was better off, as prices seemingly increase every year!

The rest is fabrication & finding a place to cast a few things or adapting a previously engine   part fabricated for something else, have alook @ this site...www.imps4ever.info/

I do not know when Bomber started to build his, but there is rumoured to have been perhaps around 25 plus machines built, using this combination of Imp engine & Norton/BSA/specially fabricated frame, over the years.

Cheers


John

Offline Bomber

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Re: Slimline featherbed
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2012, 09:57:34 PM »
JBW I built mine 2003-04, Reg Patten was the man, he sold prepared 100+hp engines for sale... one day (sighs)
If iver tha does owt for nowt alus duit for thissen

johnnyboy-wonder57

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Re: Slimline featherbed
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2012, 11:34:46 AM »
A great build Bomber, some nice parts used, have you not been properly featured in a magazine yet, with the "wonga" paid for a feature article or two, you could upgrade your engine to a Patten special!


Cheers


JBW

Offline Bomber

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Re: Slimline featherbed
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2012, 09:18:34 PM »
Yes it was featured in an edition of Back Street Heroes some time ago and last year in the Cafe Racer magazine... Wonga... you have to be joking!
If iver tha does owt for nowt alus duit for thissen

Offline ribbit

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Re: Slimline featherbed
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2012, 01:28:17 AM »