5TA Clutch cables.

[twolitre]

My Triumph 5TA "eats" clutch cables.
In 7 years it has pulled the nipple off one or other end of its clutch cable at least four times. Always replaced with a new cable.
I have been told the clutch is "too heavy".
The only response I can make to that is that if I lower the clutch spring tension any more the clutch slips. I can also point out that I can easily operate the clutch lever with 2 fingers and the cable tension is less than often required for front wheel braking in normal riding, and the front brake cable has never failed even once in that period. Is this a Triumph 5TA Malady. If so what is the cure?
I have already replaced the clutch springs with different poundage (recommended) ones from Len Craig.
I find it difficult accept that the tension on the cable is too much, particularly as the front brake lever needs a much harder pull in normal use.
Any comments or help gratefully received.
I perhaps should also mention that replacement cables have been from different suppliers and have always been well lubricated and fitted with minimum bends..
Jim.

[Rex]

"Too heavy" indeed. Who thinks up this cobblers, the cable suppliers?
The obvious answer is to make your own cables rather than buy from suppliers who buy in pattern parts crap.
As you rightly say, if it was down to the "pull" on the cable you'd never get a front brake cable to stay in one piece...

[wetdog]

i make my own , brass nipples and cable (not the plastic coated stuff) the cable run on the 5ta is smooth and i can only think the cables you are buying are cheap rubbish , if they have the cast type nipple trow them away . it is imposible for a cable to pull tro a nipple unless its made incorrectly as the steel flare filled with solder will not go back tro the nipple hole , i use a solder pot

[twolitre]

Thanks Rex,
The comment about "too heavy" came from a fellow member of my classic bike club, who seems to infer that the problem is MY incompetence.
I too thought that I could perhaps have bought inferior cables, but four or five over a period of seven years and from different suppliers???
 I shy away from making my own cables because many years ago when I was an apprentice, an extremely competent motor mechanic (with high professional qualification) replaced a brake cable nipple on a Triumph 5T I had. I can vouch that everything was spotlessly clean and the cable end was flared in the nipple properly. In any case the lower Clutch Cable nipple on the 5TA is too small to solder and must be cast on.
Never the less the impossible happened according to wetdog - the cable pulled through - gave me the fright of my life! And could have killed me!!
Incidentally, I am a qualified motor mechanic myself, though not very experienced with motor bikes.
I used to be able to sign myself - J.C.B. W*****, M.I.M.I (plus C & G qualifications etc). But I stopped paying subscriptions to the I. M. I. when I retired and surrendered the right to the letters.
Jim.

[Rex]

Nothing's "impossible" where engineering's concerned, but done properly there's every chance the cable will outlast you.
Those (from memory) pear-shaped nipples on the lower end are available, as are all the other nipples such as barrels, ball-shaped and even the little tits on the end of choke and throttle cables.
I find "www.trialsbits.co.uk" pretty good for cable stuff.

Anyway, even if the worst happened and your clutch nipple pulled off after you soldered it, you'd be no worse off than you are now with the pattern stuff failing...

[wetdog]

"5TA is too small to solder " ? if you are useing the cast type they are rubbish , all the nipples are available (i make my throtle ones from push bike cables) if you have had a nipple pull off a clutch cable its been done wronge , i dont care how good the enginner is surposed to be

[twolitre]

Thanks Rex for the link.
As I said I am not too familiar with bike engineering and I did not realise that pear nipples etc. were available , and BRASS too.
I have ordered a universal cable with a doherty style top nipple because the current cable actually has a pear nipple inside a doherty size adapter and that is where the current cable failed, though all of the others have failed at the bottom, also a pear nipple.
For wetdog:- I only "used" cast on nipples because that is the way the (ready to fit) cables I bought were manufactured. And don't forget "pride cometh before the fall"
As you both probably know, fitting a replacement cable to a 5TA means removing the gearbox end plate. No fun at the roadside even when suitable tools are carried.
Jim.

[wetdog]

"I only "used" cast on nipples because that is the way " .....  and after 4 fails ? heres one for you..... "an idiot never learns"  being a self confesed enginner im amazed you can not solder , did you work for rover by any chance ?

[Rex]

As you both probably know, fitting a replacement cable to a 5TA means removing the gearbox end plate. No fun at the roadside even when suitable tools are carried.
Jim.

Two solutions there then-
1) change to the slightly later end cover which doesn't need removal, or
2) use the best breakdown tool of all, namely Mr Nokia. Recovery is often included on bike insurance policies now anyway.

[twolitre]

I do have breakdown cover Rex, but I tend to be a rather independent type who sorts things out for myself whenever possible. The last time I used the cover was from Yorksire when a split link in my chain parted company. And YES the clip WAS in the correct way round. I felt rather like "for the sake of a nail ................." and a 40 mile ride in a truck when a replacement split link fitted in seconds was all that was needed seemed extreme. Especially as they were notified of the problem.

I was unaware that an alternative gearbox end-plate was available. Any pointers?
Jim.

[Rex]

I don't blame you in respect of a lost split-link (I do carry a few essentials such as this) but I wouldn't dive into the gearbox by the road-side unless I really had to. It's not enjoyable.
Anyway, you need the 1964-on gearbox end cover, easily identified by the later and better three-ball lift mechanism.

[twolitre]

"I only "used" cast on nipples because that is the way " .....  and after 4 fails ? heres one for you..... "an idiot never learns"  being a self confesed enginner im amazed you can not solder , did you work for rover by any chance ?

I am too wise to say ANYTHING is "impossible". I have seen the "impossible" happen too many times! And the engineer I referred to could run rings around any other I have ever met. And then some.
Nor have I ever said that I could not solder. I used to TEACH people to solder!
In this modern world I did not realise the range of nipples and Bowden Cable that was still available to manufacture my own.
I readily accept that my trade was cars not bikes, and though I often manufactured choke cables etc. over a 50 years working life, there are not many motorcycle type nipples on cars.
In any case, I have still many more important things to do with my life than manufacture control cables. But then I did not expect to be buying dud cables from well recognised and supposedly reliable suppliers.
Jim.   

[wetdog]

"choke cables on 50 year old cars ? (you mean you can cut to length ) I used to TEACH people to solder  ? god help those you claim to have taught , please give an example of the imposible you have seen I maybe able to help , heres some letters you can place after your name for free , B.U.L.L.S.H.I.T

[twolitre]

You sound a NICE person wetdog!

However this posting might interest Rex.

I ordered "universal" cable and nipple from Trials Spares as you prompted.
The inner is visibly thicker than the cable removed, which then prompted measurement and maths.
out of curiosity.
The "universal" inner worked out as having over 11% greater cross sectional area than the failed one, which presumably, if the cable is of similar tensile strength steel, will make the cable strength 11% greater. And the soldered strength similar, or perhaps even more as the pear nipple supplied is brass, much harder and more durable than the ready made nipples on the old cable.
Hopefully you might have supplied the answer!
Thanks, Jim.

[wetdog]

I am ............. if solderd "correctly" and the cable flared you wont have this happen again , get a solder pot attachment it makes it very easy............... "I have seen the "impossible" happen too many times"............... just one example would be nice and may stop us rolling round the floor laughing