Neighbour's bike from 1920's or so

[gbhall]

The lady atop this motorcycle was Mrs Grace Livesey, who was born sometime before 1910.  When she married Mr Jack Livesey, she moved into a new house in Kingstanding, Birmingham, and lived her whole life there until her mid-nineties.  I first knew her as my next door neighbour ‘Aunty’ Grace when I was born in 1943. Up until her retirement from work and for quite some time afterwards, she commuted on a motor cycle (not the one in the photo all the time, of course!).

I have this photo of her from my late father’s collection, and it dates from around 1930 I would think. I am quite interested to know the make and model of this bike, and I hope sharing this picture will be of interest to a few people on this site. If anyone has memories of her or more likely her husband Jack, I will be pleased to correspond. Jack was a very experienced engineer and model-maker who exhibited.  His son John Livesey was also an engineer, and worked with I think, the bus transport maintenance department of Birmingham City Council, up until the 80's at least.

[sprocket-in-my-socket]

Hello,
it looks like a Rudge Whitworth Model Standard of around 1926/27.

Regards,
Helmut

[R]

Indeed, a very distinctive model, a 500cc single.
And with a 4 valve head, which made it extremely sporty and expensive for its day.



This picture is actually of a 350cc, presumably from 1925, does anyone know how to tell them apart ?

[cardan]

This picture is actually of a 350cc, presumably from 1925, does anyone know how to tell them apart ?

On the 350 the push rods start wide apart and slope towards each other; on the 500 the push rods are in line with each other.

Now if we could just ask Grace to move her knee...

Leon

[gbhall]

Hello,
it looks like a Rudge Whitworth Model Standard of around 1926/27.

Regards,
Helmut

Unquestionably right Helmut, especially, now that a brochure photo is provided by R (thanks also!). Can the registration OM4441 be traced at all ? It is most likely the bike Grace was on actually belonged to her husband Jack. My memory does not tell me what she had later in her own right, but I suspect it was a BSA.

[mini-me]

OM reg issued july 1924---sept 1925 Birmingham.

[Rex]

Now, who wants to club together for a time machine and a roll of white fivers......?
We'll be millyonaires I tell yah!

[gbhall]

Rex, your joke about the time machine had me day-dreaming. Just think what you could take back in your head.  I was thinking, what is it we have today which are just basically good ideas that simply did not occur to anybody in 1925 ? I thought of like the concept of the disc brake for instance.  The Rudge seemed to have brakes rather like a push-bike, vulcanised rubber on metal ?  Might have needed a couple of miles to stop from full speed......

Then I realised I am a not being very practical, whole new industries would have to be founded and techniques developed even for a disk brake, right ?  At that date, they would not be able to produce the steel to the required heat and wear-resistance, nor manufacture the brake pad material, nor accurately machine the bores of hydraulic brake cylinders (I am not a bike buff, please don't tease or scoff at me).

Fun to think about though, eh?

[mini-me]

I think you will find dics brakes were seen on bikes in the 1920s? Douglas I think

I don't think machining would have been a problem we were able to make very good aero engines by 1917 which reqired some very fine engineering.

There truly is nothing new under sun as regards motorvehicles, disregarding the unecessary rubbish fitted to modern vehicles
Overhead cams, in line fours, sleeve valves, rotary oil cooled engines watercooled engines lots more on the lists. Although yes lots of ideas failed because of the right material, the concepts are not new.

Only  people under 60 regard old machines as unreliable; bikes were being ridden round the world in the 1920s. and getting there.

No manufacturer these days would permit their machines to be subjected to the test BSA put some of their machines through.

In 1939 Panther could clain 100mpg fromtheir 500 single, I cannot, not even with modern "technology' and its alleged benefits get more than 70mg out of a modern 125 scooter.

In vintage days brakes could be less efficent as there was far less traffic and dare I say it, motorcyclists were better skilled in handling the bike then as compared to a modern rider on on a vintage bike these days.