1949 Norton model 7

[john.k]

A 100 piece toolkit would have been a blessing........Im one of the graduates of $10 bikes with all the big nuts worked over with a hammer and chisel.........I have several rusty knackered barn finds....(.I dont actually have a barn),....when I first got them were running bikes........And dont knock hammer and chisel...........a good hammer and chisel man can get a job anywhere ,and succeed at it.

[mini-me]

I have a Vincent firefly you can have for £950

[Rex]

Why not? - simply because the cost of restoring aforementioned pile of rust - even with Norton on the tank - would be far more than the end result is worth. If you are doing it for pure enjoyment alone, then that is a different matter. Personally, I would favour a resto, provided it is wipes it face at the end of it. So if you would be good enough to find me a "non-running, but basically complete and unmolested" Vincent for under a grand, I would be most obliged.....     

It's great if you can flog off a bike you've spent money on for what it cost (or more) but if bike restoration is your interest then not making a profit doesn't really come into it. You wouldn't expect to make a profit if you liked golf or playing in a band, would you?
That said, too many spend too much on Bantams and the like and can never hope to recoup much if sold. There must be a happy medium in there somewhere.
As for the Vin, if only you'd said you wanted one last week...

[R]

The early Norton twins had a name for blowups when rods broke.

The 500's don't easily break rods.
The  Model 99 600's used the same rods, and that might be a different matter.

Buying an old bike is almost always a case of you exploring the insides and doing
it how you'd like it to be, folks always seem to take shortcuts somewhere ?

[R]

I don't believe there are many left in this country although there are probably a lot still in the USA.

A lot seem to have come out to Australia, since there was a widespread Norton dealer network there already.
Early ones could be rare in the USA ?, the Indian Sales Corp wasn't set up to distribute Nortons etc until the early 1950s ?

btw, its easy to spot a genuine early model dommie, the timing cover only has 11 screws.
All subsequent years had 12 screws  (may have carried over into 1950 for a bit).
Expect a bit of work to make the timing cover oil tight....

[john.k]

Ive been "at it" for nearly sixty years ,and IMHO Norton twins wernt common.........mainly I suspect because Triumph s were.I seem to remember Nortons were always dearer than Triumphs and BSA s.....The early plunger Norton twins were also ugly bikes,and had tin chaincases ,something that just didnt sell in OZ...Pre 50 ,they also had the primitive outside linkage gearbox,which was also ugly.........Funny thing is the Norton SV singles were common in government fleets.....the Brisbane council had lots as mosquito sprayers and the rat gangs.....the PMG had them as linesmens  outfits,....probably all Big 4s..............As an aside.....the the arrival of the rat gang on their thumping Big 4s was a major event when I was a kid.........Sidecars full of  fox terriers..........the boss would stand up on the tank of one bike and read "The Prevention Of Plague Regulations 1907"......then give everyone to five minutes to round up cats ,chooks and guinea pigs.....Then the dogs would go to work......very exciting for a five year old.

[R]

I've had a bit to do with a few dommies, and know of lots of them.
You very rarely see them restored 'correctly' though,
info on them is tough to find, knowledgeable owners likewise.
You don't see them sitting around unsold, so someone must have bought them all up !
There is just nothing to starting them, unlike the rigmarole for a single....

The laydown box first appeared on the Model 7 for 1949, first year of them,
no external linkage boxes on them ever.

Model 7 online.
Few things not quite right, but not bad.
Handsome bike - and not a Triumph !

Getting them with all their correct tall domed bolt heads in satin chrome is quite a task.
And not a whole lot interchangeable with an ES2 etc either....

[iansoady]

Wrong kickstart. But you know that.....

I would not even try to replicate the satin chrome but stainless is an adequate substitute. Nortons always had beautiful fasteners.

[Oggers]

Chaps

Update on this after speaking with seller.

It is a 1952 model
Frame/engine numbers match on documents but not in reality.
Much work done, many new parts, mainly from Norvil. Engine stripped - apparently fine - new rings fitted, I think he said new crank..... Monobloc carb, new rims, ss spokes, frame powder coated, new seat, tinware/tank paintwork all new, recon mag, new bars, headlamp. tail, rewire, electronic ignition - I think, not Boyer something else - forgotten, 6V, new unused battery, he has been riding it about without it. New primary chain, new final drive chain.

Still worth 5.5K? Very aware that the lack of matching numbers is a value concern - like it or not. 

Thoughts again welcome.

 

[R]

The numbers not matching the documents might be a concern, you might
look into how that can be corrected before you take possession ?
Better that the frame matches. And where did the engine go ?

Isn't (or wasn't) there something similar on ebay, asking about twice that price.
That makes your one better value.
It sounds good - bearing in mind these are a moderate performance bike from yesteryear,
if you intend to keep up with motorway traffic then its not really suited for that.

[R]

There are still places around that can do satin chroming, its not a lost art.
They are not numerous though.
View a sample of their work compared to an original bolt, there are a variety of
possible finishes, it seems.

Andover Norton proudly state that some of their Commando replacement parts
are done in the correct satin chrome, which is helpful in keeping stuff 'as it was'.
So they know of at least one possible suitable electroplater.

[john.k]

The earlier 500s had an unusual tank,with a small oil pressure gauge in one side ....LHS from memory.....all the ones ive seen lately restored have an Indian chrome tank for a single..............but 1952 may have been a no chrome year.....it should have a 276 carb too,not a monobloc.

[murdo]

If the documents don't match the frame/engine numbers then they are not for this bike, and my suspicious mind thinks of stolen/rebirthing schemes. I would walk away unless the correct paperwork is found.

[john.k]

The frame number is the identity part.......engine number probably changed when the rods came out for a look around...The frame numbers on the early fifties Nortons were pretty roughly stamped,and sometimes hard to decipher......So the story goes,when a bike was finished and test ride OK,an old fellow called Pops would come down from the "counting house"and apply the frame number........he was said to always have a big bottle of strong smelling cough mixture with him,and was frequently tipsy...When Nortons went bust due to poor sales ,and racing expenditure,the comnpany was offered to the Birmingham makers,who declined...money man C.A.Vandervell died,and his son didnt like bikes.....Under a board of trade scheme,a subsidy was offered,and Charles Collier of AMC thought the price and subsidy were good enough.........AMC sent Jock West to Bracebridge St to sort things out.......Which included sacking Pop,and having Harold Daniell up before the beak for nicking stuff.......Daniell beat the rap....Jock West was not popular,and when he was made sales director for all AMC products,he got the big Yankee importers offside....including Sammy Cooper,who was selling about half of all Matchless output.

[R]

Nortons racing effort was funded entirely by the sponsors, so its a bit misleading to point the finger in that direction.

The tank on the Model 7 dommies was designed for it, with an oil pressure gauge for the plunger models and no gauge for the swingarm models - with more shape than other models. Some of the Indian parts makers do a pretty fair copy, and throw in all that chrome included in the deal, and free post Quality can apparently vary, from excellent to rejects, so do your research. The shape is not always accurate either, so check the pics carefully - and good luck to anyone that needs one.