Author Topic: Excelsior Plunger frame ID  (Read 2106 times)

Offline DELONSTAINWALL

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Re: Excelsior Plunger frame ID
« Reply #45 on: July 02, 2021, 01:39:04 AM »
The experience and knowledge that I gain from you all is fantastic. Thank you, R and 33d6 and the rest of you who have replied.

The rear mudguard below the number plate has got white reflective paint. Could this be because it was used during the WW2?

What I have also noticed is that there is a lever type throttle rather that a twist grip. It looks like throttle cable gets pulled in a straight line. This looks to be working fine as the carburettor seams to open and close. Is this stranded for this Pioneer.

Offline R

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Re: Excelsior Plunger frame ID
« Reply #46 on: July 02, 2021, 04:33:04 AM »
That was the std throttle in the 1920s.
Someone may have stuck with it into the 1930s.

Don't think they would have been sold like that by then. ?

Offline 33d6

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Re: Excelsior Plunger frame ID
« Reply #47 on: July 02, 2021, 08:55:10 AM »
Villiers provided a lever throttle as standard on their engines right up to about 1950 but as they were way past their use by date by then and very unfashionable the bike manufacturers swapped them for twist grip throttles.
Your 1936 Pioneer has a lever throttle as standard. You can see it in the catalogue picture.
As you have a hand gear change and no idle circuit in the carburettor you will find the lever throttle more convenient to use than a modern twist grip that shuts off every time you take your hand off it. Also remember you have no indicators so have to give hand signals.
Lever throttles have their advantages.

Offline TGR90B

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Re: Excelsior Plunger frame ID
« Reply #48 on: July 02, 2021, 10:14:36 AM »
Most of the twist grips I've had were fitted with a tightening screw so that the throttle didn't snap shut.
Getting grumpy, but not as grumpy as mini-me.

Offline 33d6

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Re: Excelsior Plunger frame ID
« Reply #49 on: July 02, 2021, 11:23:12 AM »
Yes, Standard Amal road bike twistgrips did have a friction adjuster but ď racingĒ bikes have been required to have automatic shut off when released for 60-70 years and how many road bikes have the function now? Most people are unfamiliar with the idea nowadays.
Riders reaction to a lever throttle can be quite strange. Some find them quite daunting. Why, I donít know. I find them good for a really relaxed ride myself. Itís not as if the bikes are capable of a 100mph Isle of Man TT lap. Horses for courses I suppose.

Offline DELONSTAINWALL

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Re: Excelsior Plunger frame ID
« Reply #50 on: July 11, 2021, 11:03:43 PM »
 
    Just about to start on my long adventure of restoring my Excelsior 1936 148 c.c. Pioneer chassis No F1/619. As per all the pictures and articles on Google this bike comes with a Burman Q type gearbox, my one comes with an albino 3 speed. I also have a leaver type throttle and a triangular shaped tool box. Why are the British made Australian bikes different?
The obvious parts that are not in working order are brake, clutch, accelerator cabals. York spring, kick start spring and a Dunlop saddle. Are any of these parts available? Any contacts details will be appreciated.
Thank you 33d6 for coming by my place and for the chat.

Offline R

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Re: Excelsior Plunger frame ID
« Reply #51 on: July 11, 2021, 11:17:07 PM »
Any 'variances' with catalog fittings may be down to the previous owner  !!
'Making do' is a long held practice amongst owners of economy machines ?
And not so economy really.

An Albino gearbox eh ?

Do you have any of the old cables as a guide.
Often the fittings are fairly standard, so maybe one from something else may be able to be adapted.
Quite a selection available on fleabay.
And also 'universal' kits, which supply cable which can be made up with the original fittings.

A possible source of bits is Modak Motorcycles in Melbourne.
He is mail order only these days - but must have an enormous stock of all sorts of bits,
well worth a try. ?


Offline Mark M

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Re: Excelsior Plunger frame ID
« Reply #52 on: July 13, 2021, 07:55:20 AM »
I think he means Albion R, but hey, you're talking to the guy who had to phone in a sighting of an albino Wallaby blocking the road on Halloween night. The emergency operator took some persuading...

Offline DELONSTAINWALL

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Re: Excelsior Plunger frame ID
« Reply #53 on: July 13, 2021, 11:38:35 PM »
Mark M and R please see photos.

Should I keep the Albion (MW118) (not sure what this number is) gearbox on my Excelsior Pioneer or replace it with the original Burman Q type?

I have decided to make up the cabals as I am able use the original fittings. Many years back I made up the brake cables for my 1968 Raleigh Chopper Bike. 

Offline R

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Re: Excelsior Plunger frame ID
« Reply #54 on: July 14, 2021, 01:43:10 AM »
Is the Albion in good working order, and fits properly in there. ?

There's the answer then !
A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush, as they used to say.

You could spend years looking for the correct Burman - and gain nothing.
Or find one tomorrow...
« Last Edit: July 14, 2021, 01:44:43 AM by R »

Offline Mark M

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Re: Excelsior Plunger frame ID
« Reply #55 on: July 14, 2021, 09:16:53 AM »
Del, R has it exactly. If it works, use the Albion and keep looking if total originality is important. Albion boxes were probably more numerous than Burman at the time, the internal components are common across many boxes so spares are out there. I'm not sure about availability for the Burman? The main differences between these boxes are usually the cases themselves. The number stamped on the top is unique to the box. The letter prefix identifies the box type and manufacturing batch and the digits are it's unique number. Unfortunately there appears to be no 'master' record of which manufacturers were supplied with what boxes so comparing different numbers in survivors is sometimes the only way. (There is a list on the web of post-War box codes as fitted to Indian badged RE models but it is not completely correct.)
REgards, Mark

Offline DELONSTAINWALL

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Re: Excelsior Plunger frame ID
« Reply #56 on: July 16, 2021, 12:27:02 AM »
Thanks Mark M and R for your honest opinion. Yes, the Albion fits and works perfectly.

I have decided to go with the original colour for this Excelsior 1936 148 CC. Pioneer which is black. Does anyone know witch black shade I should use?

I am going to start from the front of the bike and work my way to the back by dismantling all parts, then check that all parts are in working order if not get replacement parts. Once I am satisfied, I will then start on the paint work. As I am doing this myself, I will be taking my time to get the paint work done well.

Some of you may have other ways of approaching this project. Please let me know?

Offline R

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Re: Excelsior Plunger frame ID
« Reply #57 on: July 16, 2021, 02:49:08 AM »
Does anyone know which black shade I should use?

!!

I went to my paint supplier, and said I want the blackest black you can supply.
So no red blue green yellow grey white or pink additives.
They complied, and it is a lovely deep black.
(why would anything ever be otherwise, you may wonder ??).

As to the paint type, well thats a matter for what your painter or you can do, and have a booth for.
Some of these modern brews are highly toxic, to painter or neighbours, so choose wisely.
Most of the newer types require a clearcoat, which looks rather wrong on old machinery.
My old Waratah had a fairly thin wash of black enamel over it, so quality paint wasn't on the agenda back then...

Some of you may have other ways of approaching this project. Please let me know?

I don't think it makes any difference if you go front-to-back, top-to-bottom, inside out or upside down,
as long as you are methodical, take photos of EVERYTHING (unless you have a photographic memory)
and label and bag all nuts and bolts in their categories, then nothing can go wrong. (!).

I think your bike is a little too far gone to be an 'original paint' machine, but you might want to just go through it mechanically
and take it for a ride before you start applying a new coat of paint and erase all that history ??
I like using phosphoric acid to remove that rusty look (panel beaters supply shops etc)(its in coca cola, so not exactly hazardous to life or limb)
(although keep away from eyes and clothes) and then use linseed oil to preserve/protect it.

You see all these sparkling new bikes at rallies, but its the survivors that get the interest ....


Offline Vreagh

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Re: Excelsior Plunger frame ID
« Reply #58 on: July 16, 2021, 10:00:27 AM »
On my Fanny B, I've only painted what I've repaired. The rest is as original, I might give it a wipe over with an oily rag to preserve the metal, I don't fancy giving it a coat of varnish as some have suggested.

Offline Rex

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Re: Excelsior Plunger frame ID
« Reply #59 on: July 16, 2021, 11:08:26 AM »
I'd agree with that. A coat of varnish over rust is a bit too "Fast and Loud" and an oily rag is fine.