“Star” motorcycles

[cardan]

Brilliant. The tech info is new and welcome. I'd love to know who (in the UK) built the Essex and what it looked like. Probably Montgomery again. Luckily, again, for my purposes it doesn't matter too much.

There is another make we haven't mentioned: Villiers.

I've come across quite a few adverts for "Villiers Motor Cycle", seemingly new. I wonder, if you called into the shop to see the advertised machine, just what was written on the tank? There were also very many adverts for secondhand Villiers motorcycles, but that's just because "Villiers" was a better descriptor of a machine than the actual brand.

In the early days (particularly pre-WW1) in Australia it was very common for a locally-built machine just to have just the name of the engine on the tank: JAP, Precision, MAG, DeLuxe, Peugeot, Automoto, Buchet, King Dick, Sarolea, Fafnir, Minerva... so a machine with just "Villiers" on the tank would not be without precedent. Does the Police book list Villiers as a brand of motorcycle?

Leon

[cardan]

Here's an example of what I mean.

A 1933 article about Stillwell & Parry in Melbourne (earlier builders of the GCS) says they sell "Villiers motor cycles".

If you search their adverts they advertise "Wolf (Villiers)". Fair enough, in fact quite honest. So, in this case, they probably didn't sell "Villiers" motorcycles. I'll keep my eyes open for other "Villiers motor cycles".

A year or two later, Bennett & Wood in Sydney were selling the "B&W Wasp" and "B&W Hornet", which were rebadged Wolfs.

Leon

[mini-me]

I only shudder when some turns it into a flat tracker or chopper style mess.

I have been an advocate of the "make it 'wrong' to annoy the rivet couter brigade " for many years.

years go I had one such plonker telling me what was "wrong" with my bike and using a marque history book to prove his point, trouble was,it was my bike in the picture.

I have come to the conclusion that vintage bike owners are almost saints as these days we have to tolerate far too many plonkers buggering up our hobby.

[Rex]

I reckon that could be applied to most hobbies/interests though.
When you're younger they're the old boy guru's who know everything about everything, and will happily spin a two minute anecdote into a full half hour monologue, but when you attain "old boy" status too, they're nothing more than boring fecking know-alls who actually know very little of note.
Jack Hargreaves (for UK members of a certain age) personifies this stereotype.

[TGR90B]

Jack hargreaves a popular broadcaster and director of Southern ITV. A very full and interesting life (check Wiki) and somewhat of a ladies man.

[33d6]

There are no ‘Villiers’ motorcycles in the Vic Police book. The book carefully gives a lot of Villiers engine data and has been useful in filling some identification holes in Roy Bacons standard reference but very carefully makes it clear it is a list of engines only.
No Villiers motorcycles.
It’s often difficult to identify these interwar Villiers powered machines because they were mostly built from the same proprietary parts. The choice of gearbox, fork and wheels, saddle and so on was limited so there’s little to tell them apart. Although it can make guessing what transfer to put on the tank a bit tricky once you know how to maintain one you broadly know how to maintain all.
I find them fun but most think I’m a bit sad.

[BIGMAL]

Agree with 33d6, NO .... VILLIERS motor cycles in Vic. Police Book........... but a few mentions of Villiers powered ones as you say.  However as a matter of interest that book was probably the one put out in 1952 and definitely was minus a few mentions !  Apart from that and a personal interest more inclined to veteran era machines, very few people seem to know / realize ? that during WW11 the old Motor Registration Branch was in the now old Exhibition Buildings in Carlton and here thousands of motor cycle records went up in flames when a disastrous fire occurred.  The fire was never officially mentioned [anywhere that I can find] possibly due to Wartime Restrictions and maybe fifth column "enemy sabotage ?"  What was lost during that fire in the normally well protected cellars below ground level, were thousands of those motor cycle records so many of us seek.  A.O.M.C. records as I understand them, from cards begun in 1932; are Registration number, make of vehicle, engine number, some transfers and cancellations; no owners names and addresses.  Perhaps the surviving "on film" records spoken of were taken after the fire and thus some of the mystery machines just didn't make it into the 1952 edition ?  Leon [Cardan: hallo again after some time !] 500 names etc ?  Hope they were actually "registered machines" and not like those often recorded as ?? in lists at Darley Trials etc., where Harley Davidson and similar were often given accolades such as "GRAHAM H.D."
Enough for now.

[cardan]

500 names etc ?  Hope they were actually "registered machines" and not like those often recorded as ?? in lists at Darley Trials etc., where Harley Davidson and similar were often given accolades such as "GRAHAM H.D."

Hi Mal, Yep, well over 500 without listing the "Golikel", "Never Stuck Up", "Gadfly" or "Flying Flyver".

Just finished THREE  different Monarchs, though, all in the veteran/early vintage period, but from three different makers. I see I could have bought one at the Shannons Auction in Melbourne a couple of months back. https://www.shannons.com.au/auctions/2021-shannons-winter-timed-online-auction/PANAUL2B27FB1B0O/ The funny thing is that they mention two of the three Monarchs in their blurb, leaving out the most likely maker... Oh well.
Cheers
Leon

[cardan]

OK, I'm up to S.

I've had a stab at "S is for Simplex" (Turner Bros, 1936, 37 and maybe 1938, with all sized Villiers engines), and I can do something with "S is for Star" c1938 (Finlay Bros, 1938, with 148cc "Super Sport"), but I'm completely empty on the idea of Star motorcycles in Victoria in the early 1930s. Any ideas welcome.

Seriously, I think we'll get away with what we've got, but id the AOMC records should yield more...

I have to admit to tiring, but the end is in sight.

Cheers

Leon

[33d6]

The old microfilms are still with the digitisers, Leon so no Star information just yet. Hopefully back soon but no word to date.
So far digitising the microfilms has been an expensive exercise. JF and I took advantage of our microfilm delivery trip to have lunch with friends. I managed to break a crown whilst doing so. The dentist is well pleased and suggested we have lunch again on the pick up but I think a bowl of soup might be safer.

[cardan]

The high price of historical research!

S is for Streak was interesting. Rob already had a good entry in the first edition of the book, so just a bit of checking and tidying up. The Streak factory was at 433 Brunswick Street, on the NW corner of Cecil Street, Fitzroy, and amazingly it is still there (or was in 2017 when the Google photo was taken) looking just like a 1912 motorcycle factory. The machines mostly used JAP engines. Oozing with history...

Cheers

Leon

[R]

Until somewhere recently, it was still a bicycle shop.

https://i1.au.reastatic.net/1696x832-resize,extend,r=33,g=40,b=46-quality=60,progressive/dd5bb9e9cbda9d470460855a6f7681dc61c88cde53fce54b4b13094ec519ea25/image0.jpg

[Ozziebsa]

There's little evidence that Villiers engines were built into locally made frames though.
Photos of any such assembly are in very short supply - even from makers who were reputed to be doing this
Full imports seems to have become the norm in the 1930s and postwar ?

Yes I agree. Mind you, in the 1930s very few Australian firms claimed to be building their own Villiers lightweights. Perhaps only Acme (Bennett & Wood), and I suppose I believe them. The others - Star, Essex, Simplex, Utility, Waratah, B&W Wasp, B&W Hornet, Utility, Cottman Colt (RE), and probably more - were very likely just rebranded imports, although I have an open mind if more info comes to light. It's not very glamorous, but it is part of the story.

Leon

The accompanying notes appear to be an interview with Reg Williams by Peter Jones sourced from his National Library boxes of materials. Reg Williams mentions the Wasp in particular. I am not sure if Peter Jones ever published this anywhere.

[cardan]

Thanks - that's very interesting: memoirs like this from people who were actually there are rare, and give us an insight into the non-public goings-on in the industry. The downside is they are often written down late in life when the memory is not quite tip-top. But here Reg Williams gives it a red-hot go and paints an interesting picture. There are a few puzzling bits: in particular the reference to Wolf doesn't fit in with anything I've seen about Williams, but perhaps it's just a mis-remembering of Sun. (In the 1930s it was Bennett and Wood who, in Sydney, brought in Wolf bikes/sets, which they sold as the B&W Wasp and Hornet.)

Page 3 ends half way through a sentence - have you got the next page?

Cheers

Leon