Author Topic: Headstock frame number.  (Read 1077 times)

Offline gambole1949

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Headstock frame number.
« on: October 04, 2022, 09:28:25 AM »
Hi I have what I believe isa DMW square tubed frame, but the number on the headstock does not relate to DMW, just wondered if anyone knows what frame or model that this number belongs to The number is 44S 54359. On closer inspection it looks like the headstock may have been welded on to suit different forks for trialing or moto cross. Fingers crossed.

Offline cardan

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Re: Headstock frame number.
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2022, 10:23:01 PM »
I flipped the pages of the VMCC Machine Register while watching the tv last night, but didn't come across anything with "44S" as a frame prefix. But if the head is a later addition, perhaps something Japanese?

Leon

Offline 33d6

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Re: Headstock frame number.
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2022, 04:21:18 AM »
That number is very DMW in its format. Iím not saying its right but I would be expecting something like it.

I suggest photos of frame  and number would help.

Offline cardan

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Re: Headstock frame number.
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2022, 06:21:16 AM »
Mmmm.... certainly there is a 1952 DMW-Villiers listed with frame number S 52836, so the "S" and the number itself is in the ballpark. But then there are more DMWs with no obvious pattern... I assume the Victorian rego book is more comprehensive?

Leon

Offline gambole1949

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Re: Headstock frame number.
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2022, 07:16:03 AM »
The number on the Headstock runs from bottom upwards on the left hand side as you look from the front and it is 44S45359. I will try and get a photo of the number sometime today.

Offline 33d6

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Re: Headstock frame number.
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2022, 09:44:31 AM »
After ploughing through the various bits of info I have I can say the system DMW initially used in the early 50ís seems to put model number first, then a letter showing whether a standard (rigid) or de luxe (Sprung) frame with finally a frame number having the year of manufacture as the first two numbers with the build number following.
I couldnít stand up in court and swear to this but it fits this particular frame quite well.
Model 44, S for Sprung, 54, made 1954 and 359, the 359th made that year.
A low frame number isnít surprising for a firm like DMW. They werenít a major player plus they were going gangbusters making their MP Tele forks at the time as well.

So there you go, I think your frame is straight DMW as is the number. I donít know how easy it is to find an early set of MP forks for it, but a later set would be far more comfortable. The early ones were shockers.

Offline gambole1949

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Re: Headstock frame number.
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2022, 11:25:30 AM »
Thank you so much for all your info, I do have the plunger suspension for it so it looks like a project for the future. Many thanks Bud.

Offline cardan

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Re: Headstock frame number.
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2022, 01:03:57 AM »
... model number first, then a letter showing whether a standard (rigid) or de luxe (Sprung) frame with finally a frame number having the year of manufacture as the first two numbers with the build number following...

Brilliant - that almost works for the VMCC Register frame numbers, which are notoriously unreliable. But in addition to the letter "S" there was also "P" and "T". Any ideas?

Leon

Offline 33d6

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Re: Headstock frame number.
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2022, 01:55:13 AM »
Iíve been burrowing further in my Annual Show numbers of the Blueís and Greeníun. Iíve found DMW did not exhibit each year but were included in the show report Buyers Guide. The Buyers Guide for the 1954 season lists a 4S Competition model which I suspect refers to this particular frame.
1954 was their change over year from plunger to swing arm rear  suspension and they seem to have sold both concurrently until the last plunger frame went out the door. The 4S seems to be the swan song of the plunger frame. Itís certainly a bit beefier around the headstock and engine mounts than the frame shown in the 1951 Show Report number but that was the first year of production and I suspect the years between Ď51 and Ď54 showed where a little strengthening was required.
The DMW competition line up included Motocross, Trials, and Road race variants of the same basic machine but trying to pin it all down is rather trying, to say the least.

I havenít dug deep enough to track down the Pís and Tís, etc, Leon and having met the enquiry I feel Iíve gone far enough.

Offline cardan

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Re: Headstock frame number.
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2022, 04:27:38 AM »
Far enough indeed! We can do more when the cache of exotic DMWs is uncovered down under.

Don Morley, in Classic British Two-Stroke Trials Bikes, suggests that the new swing-arm frame for 1954 was the Type-P, for "pressings", which were used to keep weight down and strength up. S plunger, P swing arm, T rigid, maybe.

Leon

Offline 33d6

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Re: Headstock frame number.
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2022, 11:48:23 PM »
Iíve kept ploughing through my Annual Show numbers plus Don Morleys book and have found that DMW were at each show but sometimes exhibited as DMW, sometimes as Metal Profiles and on occasion as both with a separate stall for each entity.
Further to this the 4S Comp/Trials with plunger rear suspension gets a regular mention in the Annual Show reports but no 5S as shown inDon Morleys book. I suspect Mr Morleys 5S is actually the 4S.
The Buyers Guides also list the 4 speed Villiers gearbox plus the MP Earles fork front end as extras available to be fitted on any DMW which further confuses the casual onlooker as to what is a DMW.
DMW/Metal Profiles seem to have suffered the usual problem that all proprietary component makerís have. As DMW they were competing against their Metal Profiles customers. To keep up Metal Profiles sales DMW had to be good but not that good that their MP customers lost sales to them. They had to demonstrate their wares but never make enough bikes to upset their market.
Finally, much of their stuff is illustrated in the various Annual Show reports, it jus a matter of plodding through each one page by page.

Offline cardan

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Re: Headstock frame number.
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2022, 03:55:39 AM »
Stop it - immediately! :)

Seriously, interesting to look at the various DMW models - they made some better-than-average machines.

Leon

Offline Rex

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Re: Headstock frame number.
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2022, 10:21:52 AM »
The Deemster? :o

Offline R

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Re: Headstock frame number.
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2022, 02:03:45 PM »
DMW = Dawson Motors Wolverhampton   est 1945

A potted history on Wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMW_Motorcycles

Offline john.k

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Re: Headstock frame number.
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2022, 02:13:24 PM »
Metal Profiles was  part of the NVT empire in the 1970s,survived the 1975 bankruptcy ,and was still going around 2000 .....I think the London Taxis were made by Metal Profiles ,and it was the last part of NVT to go broke around 2007........just from memory .