Author Topic: Panther M100 engine with rust frozen bearings  (Read 511 times)

Offline john.k

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Panther M100 engine with rust frozen bearings
« on: December 02, 2022, 08:07:23 AM »
I have a Panther M100 1948 ,went under in the Sydney floods maybe two years ago,maybe longer and I need to get it apart .......the crankshaft roller bearings are frozen with corrosion ,and wont move .....ive done some soaking in petrol /oil mix ,the mix has penetrated the timing side roller ....(all the timing gear/camshaft etc removed ).........some say soak it in diesel......but from experience I  know that doesnt work.........the idea of a powerful ultrasonic wash  machine has occurred to me......but will that free it up?........Any ideas?.........The cases must be saved ,if I have to I may blow out the shafts with the oxy,but thats kinda drastic.

Offline R

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Re: Panther M100 engine with rust frozen bearings
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2022, 09:53:20 PM »
Do the bearings NEED to be rust free to remove them ???

Just heating the crankcases of most brit horizontally split cases will allow the cases to be pulled free,
the heat allows the alloy to relax its grip on them.
Everything in the way needs to be removed first, obviously.

Its said that when you spit on the alloy, it spits back at you they are hot enough.
That is quite warm.
(and don't allow the heat source to linger anywhere, you don't want to MELT anything !)
Heating it all in an oven is not unheard of - if the chief allows that !

??

Offline cardan

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Re: Panther M100 engine with rust frozen bearings
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2022, 05:01:37 AM »
I doubt that ultrasonics will have the desired effect, particularly if it is well rusted. Probably something more drastic like a rattle gun might do something... but I think I'd have a go along R's train of thought, trying to split the cases and leave the crank (with or without its bearings) behind. Hard with the Panther motor, with such large cases. To try this approach, it would be worth designing a jig of some kind to evenly pull the crankcases apart, rather than jamming tyre levers between the flywheels and the case! It might be one of those jobs where hours are spent making the tool, for one minute's work to do the actual job.

Leon

Offline john.k

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Re: Panther M100 engine with rust frozen bearings
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2022, 05:29:31 AM »
My track record isnt good............I busted a set of 36 cases in the same frzen bearing state.........tried everything......heated to oil smoking still wouldnt release the bearings ............the drive side is a particular problem as there is a partition between the inner and outer bearings ........when I tried to press out the shaft in 1936 cases ,they broke like cast iron ........I only have a 50 ton press ,and its hard to know how much force is being applied.........been lots of suggestions including filling cases with coca cola.

Offline R

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Re: Panther M100 engine with rust frozen bearings
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2022, 06:26:37 AM »
.when I tried to press out the shaft in 1936 cases ,they broke like cast iron .

Did you heat the cases before trying this ?
Unless the alloy is WELL heated, they won't relax and release the bearings.
Doing it cold is akin to suicide ...

A major ingredient in Coca Cola is phosphoric acid.
This is a known major rust eating substance.
Unless the bearings need to spin for some reason, I'm not so sure this is required though ?

Offline murdo

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Re: Panther M100 engine with rust frozen bearings
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2022, 06:33:09 AM »
I have had success in these type situations by heating the cases until a match wood will burn when touched to case and then spraying the bearing with aerosol freeze spray to shrink the bearing and break the bond between case and bearing. I think the press would be far more than needed for this job.
This is the one I used.
https://crcindustries.com.au/products/crc-freeze-spray-300g-2039.html

Offline john.k

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Re: Panther M100 engine with rust frozen bearings
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2022, 07:33:33 AM »
I cant get to the bearings until cases are split..........once cases are split,there is no problem........anyhoo,I'll give heat a go tomorrow .

Offline Rex

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Re: Panther M100 engine with rust frozen bearings
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2022, 09:06:22 AM »
For a more informed range of opinions specific to Panthers you could always ask on the Panther F-B group as they're well-informed and technically aware. Then there's the Panther Owners forum who are also good.
I had an M100 up to six months ago but other than the previously-mentioned heat, heat and more heat I can't offer anything more than others have already said.

Offline cardan

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Re: Panther M100 engine with rust frozen bearings
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2022, 09:13:35 AM »
OK. Don't do it.

I'm not sure how hard the main shafts are, but they are probably case hardened and "soft" in the middle. Set the engine up somehow (spend some time getting it level and supported) and drill them out, step by step, until they are effectively gone all the way through the bearings. HSS drills should be OK, but the coated ones are better, and solid carbide is expensive but will work well.

Crankcases are hard to find and valuable, while the mainshafts can be remade or bought.

Leon

Offline john.k

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Re: Panther M100 engine with rust frozen bearings
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2022, 09:24:42 AM »
I plan to blow the shafts with the oxy if I cant get the cases apart.......I have several motors as spares ,including a 1936 with aforementioned busted crankcases .......I also have a 1930  600cc.......and have been offering to swap the whole motor for a set of later cases.........plenty of wants it,but none offering swaps

Offline chaterlea25

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Re: Panther M100 engine with rust frozen bearings
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2022, 10:21:59 PM »
 Hi All
I had a similar job when I found the original bottom end that came from the factory in my Ariel HT5
It had been sitting for donkeys years outdoors with the cases full of water
After letting it soak for a year in a bucket of diesel it was still solid
As Leon has suggested I set the cases up on the mill table and bored out the timing side mainshaft until it releases the timing side bearing, then I was able to split the cases.
I undid the big end on the TS and removed the TS flywheel then the drive side wheel
As there is a circlip between the drive side case bearings it would wreck the case if the shaft was pushed inwards so I pressed the shaft outwards as there is a collar that supports the bearing inner race

I would resist using the gas axe as the cases maybe damaged around the bearing housing :o

John

Offline john.k

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Re: Panther M100 engine with rust frozen bearings
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2022, 01:50:39 AM »
Im going to set it aside for a while and think about it....dont want to break it.