Author Topic: Troubleshooting a JAP Special  (Read 103069 times)

Offline Rex

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Re: Troubleshooting a JAP Special
« Reply #180 on: April 06, 2026, 09:58:57 AM »
Those different tappet settings  when doing the valve timing is a Velocette foible too.
I assume (though I've never given it much thought) that it stops the valve spring operation from affecting the valve timing measurements.
Incidentally, when I was fannying around with the valve timing on my Venom (the timing marks were wrong- another long story) someone more experienced than me said to set the valve timing up just rocking at TDC on the exhaust stroke as a good start, and he was right. It was as near as..
Clearly not satisfactory on a Honda, but for something designed in the 1930s it was OK.

Offline Rockburner

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Re: Troubleshooting a JAP Special
« Reply #181 on: April 07, 2026, 10:45:22 AM »
Those different tappet settings  when doing the valve timing is a Velocette foible too.
I assume (though I've never given it much thought) that it stops the valve spring operation from affecting the valve timing measurements.
Incidentally, when I was fannying around with the valve timing on my Venom (the timing marks were wrong- another long story) someone more experienced than me said to set the valve timing up just rocking at TDC on the exhaust stroke as a good start, and he was right. It was as near as..
Clearly not satisfactory on a Honda, but for something designed in the 1930s it was OK.

Yes - I'd imagine that closing up the tappets would reset the timing to be a tad earlier (a degree or two), and the opening period a tad longer than when measured with the more open clearances... very interesting.

So - that described timing method is essentially setting the exhaust open time exactly right... and trusting that the rest are inline?  Makes sense if you've got a single, one-piece cam shaft where the entire thing is ground from a solid blank: if the first movement is correct, then it's a reasonable assumption that the rest of the timing is right because it can't be wrong (with a solid cam-shaft & cams).  If the engine has multiple cams, or the cams are individual parts slotted onto the cam-shaft:  then there's the opportunity for non-synchronisation.

Offline Rockburner

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Re: Troubleshooting a JAP Special
« Reply #182 on: Today at 09:49:01 AM »
Had a nice video call with the Guru yesterday, and learnt a few more useful things. 

Like: when checking the backlash it's best to do this with the timing chest cover fitted and nipped up! 
So - I did that, and:



I'd say that's as close to 1 degree as you're going to get! :D

The backlash between the timing pinion and camshaft is fine!  We had a conversation about the various options for the timing pinion - they were made with allowances for the backlash (-6, standard, +6, +12, etc, he's seen a -20!) and mine is a -6.  He initially recommended going up to a "standard" if I could find one, but after rechecking (properly!), it's all good, which is a bit of a relief because these things are just not made any more! If I was to find a 2nd hand one, I'd have no idea how worn it might be (which is the same issue with pretty much all the parts for these engines).

I'm also going to make sure that when I'm doing the valve-timing from now on I'm going to have the timing chest cover fitted and nipped up to ensure things don't have too much play: it makes more of a difference than I realised!


Obviously the guru does this so often, he actually has a cut-down cover with the timing pinion exposed so he can adjust it without removing the cover! Very handy, but massively overkill for me, once I've done this and got it as best I can, it won't be getting changed again.  The ignition timing on the other hand.... ;)

The guru reminded me of something else: the "critical" valve timing to get right is the Inlet Opening position.  Get that right and everything else will follow : the cams and cam-shaft and gear are all one solid piece, so if it's right in one place, it can't be "wrong" anywhere else, so I'll work off that principle.

We also discussed the bent push-rods, it's just something that happens - they're tubes, not solid.  I need to find some replacements, and we discussed sources. 
This is the worst one: Dial at 0

Dial showing the runout:


FYI: that's the crappy dial, I've discovered that the needle is a little loose and will wander over time. ffs.  It's ok for one-off measurements though.

The other rod isn't as bad, but best to replace the pair while I'm here:




He told me that apparantly one of the main suppliers tried to sell ally push-rod tubes a while back, which wasn't a good idea as they all bent!  The people who'd bought them were (understandably) pretty pissed off and complained bitterly, but he doesn't know if the company still sells them, or what they're made of: I shall investigate!

The current preferred material for race engines, running full power, is chro-moly tubing, but he reckons that I will be fine with regular steel tubing: I need to take the ends off my current rods (the ends are soldered on), and check the wall thickness, then go find some steel tubing of similar (or thicker) wall and see about making some up; well; presuming I can't find some ready made replacements somewhere else.

hey ho... do a job, make a job (as my ex used to say...)


Oh yeah - I also discovered last night that the classic bike track-day that I was sort of attempting to have the bike ready for has been moved to June or July, from May: so that "deadline" is no longer looming as heavily, phew.  What with the discovery of the fork and gearbox leaks I was thinking it wasn't going to be ready, now I still have a vague chance if I still want to aim for it.

Offline Rex

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Re: Troubleshooting a JAP Special
« Reply #183 on: Today at 06:46:09 PM »
Re new pushrods, couldn't you do that old trick of repurposing rods from another engine? Shorten and refix ends as required?
At least you'd know that the material was good for the purpose.

Offline Rockburner

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Re: Troubleshooting a JAP Special
« Reply #184 on: Today at 08:01:00 PM »
Re new pushrods, couldn't you do that old trick of repurposing rods from another engine? Shorten and refix ends as required?
At least you'd know that the material was good for the purpose.

It's a possibility to look into.