Albion Gearbox Identification

[Iano]

They most certainly could (would be quite a coincidence if not related)

[Iano]

Hi Cardan  I have managed to get hold of the old photos from the 2007 post and have attached,  a different model Atania would you say it was before or after mine (looks before to me)
I have also attached a photo of mine

[Iano]

thanks 33d6 I can see a couple of letters on the front forks "AG" maybe with an S in front of that

[cardan]

Brilliant. Who'd have thought that there could be two such similar sets of Atania remains! Looks like this bike is still out there somewhere - maybe the current owner has sorted out the history?

Interesting that this one has the double-spring fork, which in the press of the day seems to be more common than the single-spring variety. I turned the pages on a large pile of 1923-1926 French magazines and noticed things that looked like this one - with the double-spring fork and loop frame - but passed them by! Dé Dé from memory, but I will have to check.

Good puzzle.

Leon

[cardan]

Yes, plenty to compare here... http://zhumoriste.over-blog.com/article-de-de-et-le-mystere-des-moteurs-duten-113737594.html

Leon

[33d6]

De-De doesn’t have an  Albion gearbox. That is the lightest Sturmey Archer three speeder. Again, mechanically okay but remarkably wide ratios with such a low bottom gear you could tow an army tank with it.
Very typical of its day.

[cardan]

Yes there are a lot of "typical" French lightweights - if we were talking a UK/Australian thing we'd probably have lots of sage comments about the componentry, build etc! I think a French expert is required.

Here's another with similarities to the Atania: the Claude Delage.

Re dates: The loop frame Atania was registered in Feb 1927 - I'd assume it was a new bike then, say 1926 build. I don't think the other survivor could be any later than that, so my guess would be 1924-26. Nothing on the bike looks very 1920.

Cheers

Leon

[cardan]

De-De doesn’t have an  Albion gearbox.

Well that one doesn't, it's probably the 3 speeder. Maybe the 2-speeder (which had a visibly shorter gear lever) was Albion. [Edit: should have read the article more closely - seems the 2-speeder was a Staub.] There was also a direct drive version, and four strokes, and ... all this in one year (1926) from a make most of us have never heard of!

Interesting to speculate what engine the Atania might have used. One of the big French houses advertised both Albion boxes and Villiers engines, but it seems that in the mid 1920s there were not too many French makers using the Villiers. Lots of unusual (to us) French-made two-stroke engines: for example the engine in the Claude Delage is a 175cc Lescanne, with the magneto driven off the end of the crank, like Union in the UK.

I'm a bit out of my depth...

Cheers

Leon

[cardan]

An advert for the AD (A Delaune) fork from June 1925. "1 or 2 springs", and various sizes. This is the straight-front-tube style like on the Claude Delage, but I guess they could have made the version on the Atania and the Dé Dé. Munro-Saxon (think Saxon fork in the UK) and AD were the two consistent advertisers of forks in the mid 1920s.

Leon

[Iano]

Have seen a lot of similar front forks but none exactly the same

https://www.carandclassic.com/car/C1625072#&gid=1&pid=11

https://www.mediastorehouse.com/national-motor-museum/motorcycles/1914-royal-enfield-5764597.html

I am trying to contact the owner of the other Atania. Reading his old posts he definitely knows his French bikes so trying to find out if he found any more info.
my bike had a decompression cable but not sure if they where ever used on 4 strokes (I didn't think so)
Couple of photos for my forks can just make out SAG
It's hard to think that there is still makes of bikes out there that no one has heard of be fantastic to get this back to original
My carb slide has a number "2" on it but nothing else

[Iano]

could read S&AG

[Iano]

The DD front end looks very similar (closest I've seen)

[Iano]

do you know what engine (engines) where used in the DD. my frame does not appear to have ever had a separate oil tank fitted behind the seat as the DD has

[Iano]

my throttle lever is by Bowden France the seat is missing it's brass name plate

[cardan]

The DD front end looks very similar (closest I've seen)

Yes, I assume the fork is French, or at least continental. "S&AG" rings no bells for me, but I know little about French/continental fork makers. "AG" is (roughly) "Pty Ltd" in German, and often found on German (or Swiss) products. "SGDG" is another commonly seen stamping, relating to patents. I'd actually expected the fork to be AD.

The Dé Dé engines are discussed in the article I posted a link to: Moussard-Madoz (often called just Moussard) and Duten. Try Google translate if your French is a bit dodgy.

The "Bowden France" lever is interesting. Lots of British manufacturers were busy in France in the 1920s, and some like Bowden obviously developed "local" versions of their products. The AMAC brand finished up in the UK c1930 when AMAL was formed, but it continued on from a French base right through the 1930s.

No clear photos of the saddle, but Brooks had a patent protecting the supporting rod to the saddle running through the centre of the spring. Very commonly Brooks saddles have another spring inside, and concentric with, the main spring. If the saddle is Broooks, the Brooks name will be stamped on the saddle clamp, and "10-12 Stone" will be stamped on the front part of the flat steel seat rails. If it's not Brooks, it's a Brooks copy.

All 4 strokes in the 1920s had a cable-operated valve lifter.

Not sure what the object on the saddle post of the Dé Dé and the Claude Delage is, but it might be an auxiliary oil tank. These were sometimes fitted inside the petrol tanks of British bikes, and a measuring cup was used to move the appropriate amount of oil from the oil tank into the petrol tank when filling with fuel, there being no "premix" on offer.

"Zhumoriste" (aka "Bourdache") has written several books about French motorcycles, including one about French motorcycles of the early 1920s) and may be a good person to ask re the Atania. Unfortunately his long-running blog has been disassembled into remnants (like the Dé Dé article) but he now writes at  http://zhumoriste.eklablog.com/ and can probably be contacted there.

Good luck,

Leon