Author Topic: Nortons  (Read 8899 times)

Offline Norton55

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Nortons
« on: May 23, 2008, 06:24:30 AM »
hello everybody.
Can anyone tell me the differences in the engine of a Norton model 18 and an ES2. And is there any other difference between the two bikes other than that the later ES2's had plunger suspension and the model 18 had rigid.
Another question. Does anyone know how many Norton Model 55 's were made? My dad has one, its either a 1933 or 1934 as it has hand shift for gears, but i dont seem to be able to find much information on this model on the internet.
Thanks
Norton55

Offline Big_Frank

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Re: Nortons
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2008, 06:50:33 AM »
I can't wait for a definative answer on either of these two questions.
My take on the Model 18/ES2 question was that they were virtually the same bike except for the frames.. like you.
I know the model 55 was a 350cc bike with a twin port head first advertised in 1933 and little else, like I said... I wait with bated breathe for words of enlightenment.
Frank
"Pleased to meet you, hope you guessed my name"

Offline Blue

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Re: Nortons
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2008, 12:10:01 AM »
The Easy 2 was supposed to be a 'super-sports' version of the Model 18 based mainly on the new cradle frame. However, as I understand it, the contemporary Model 18s had the magneto mounted forward in the frame, whereas the new ES2 had it behind the barrel.  I think this changed in 1931-2 and all models adopted the ES2 magneto position.  I also suspect (but can't accurately confirm) that the ES2 had enclosed valve springs, whereas the M. 18 didn't. Otherwise so far as I know the only differences where in the frame.

I don't know how many Model 55s were made, but they were produced from 1933-39.  They were essentially a model 18 with the bore/stroke dimensions changed to 71 x 88 and a twin port head (the Model 50 was identical but with a single exhaust).

It's not much but I hope it helps

Blue


Offline RichP

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Re: Nortons
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2008, 09:16:12 PM »
The differences between the 18 and ES2 varied according to the year but the ES2 was always the more expensive, more fully specified model (not that any Nortons were ever Bargain-Basement).

If you are thinking about the 1932-on Edgar Franks redesigned models, the basic difference was that the ES2 had the full cradle frame and could be specified with larger sports fuel tank etc. The 18 shared its open-diamond frame with the 19 and the side-valve models. Plunger rear suspension was an ES2 option for 1938 / 39 but as I recall from the factory records, not all that many were made.

Post-war production was standardised upon a cradle frame in 1946 and when the ES2 was re-introduced in 1947, it had plunger suspension as standard and the whole range gained Roadholder forks. Engine units are identical except that the model code was stamped next to the number (3 for the Model 18 and 4 for the ES2).

Model 55 production is difficult to quantify and would require a page by page search of the factory ledgers. The 350s had their own series of numbers but this was for Model 50, Model 55 (the twinport version) and also the CJs and Internationals. The twinports are not common but could have received single port Model 50 heads in the intervening years.

My guess from the records would be that 350 production was in the low thousands per year and twin port production a smallish percentage of that figure.  This would suggest perhaps 3000 or so made but this is just my impression, it could be wrong !

The Norton Owners Club have been compiling a database which will enable this sort of information to be extracted.

The Model 50 and 55s did have different frames and crankcases etc. from the 500/600 range (1,16H,18,19 & 20) pre-war so interchangeability is not high even though the parts look the same !


Offline VintageBike

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Re: Nortons
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2008, 12:03:14 AM »
An interesting article sent to me for posting by Geoff..



Regards

Nigel.

Offline RichP

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Re: Nortons
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2008, 04:59:19 AM »
Interesting ideas on the ES. It also occurs to me that if the 'J' was for 'Junior', the 'S' could have been for 'Senior'

I don't suppose that we'll ever find a logical explanation for Norton's numbering because as Titch Allen implies, there isn't one !

Most sources in referring to the 1920s range state that the 17C (Colonial) was a high ground clearance 16H (Home)...so why did Norton call their Special Order high ground clearance  500 side valve model for the Services just a few years later the WD 16H when surely it should have been a 17C ? ;)

Offline Norton55

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Re: Nortons
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2008, 05:17:47 AM »
Thanks for the help everybody.
I have another question. One of my freinds has an old Norton that is twin port. It looks like from around 1930-1933. Can anyone identify the bike correctly for my freind? He doesn't know whether it is a model 20(which i beleive is a twin port version of model 18) or 22 (twinport ES2). Can anyone tell me how he would be able to find out which model it is? would it be the same difference as between a model 18 and ES2?
The frame # is 47822 and the engine # is 54354.
Thanks
Norton55

Offline L.A.B.

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Re: Nortons
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2008, 05:57:06 AM »
The Norton Owners Club may be able to identify it? Although I doubt they would be able to do so just going by the engine and frame numbers?:


http://www.nortonownersclub.org/
L.A.B.

Offline RichP

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Re: Nortons
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2008, 08:31:53 AM »
Your friend's engine number would seem correct for a 1933 500.

According to Roy Bacon's "Norton Singles" the Model 22 was a twin-port engine in the cradle frame, so effectively a twin port ES2 and was discontinued in 1933. The Model 20 was the twin port 500 with an open diamond frame and was thus a twin port Model 18.

Does the bike in question have a cradle or open diamond frame ?

The NOC will be able to confirm from the factory ledgers which model it was and what if any options etc. were factory fitted. The ledgers are in engine build order rather than frame sequence.


Offline Norton55

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Re: Nortons
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2008, 01:57:37 AM »
My freind's bike has an open frame, so it should be a model 20 i guess.
Thanks for all the help.
Norton55