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Messages - 33d6

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976
The Classic Biker Bar / Re: Malvern Star Autocycle
« on: April 14, 2008, 04:44:29 PM »
There is one for sale on Australian e-Bay right now.
Cheers, Bob

977
The Classic Biker Bar / Re: 6volt LED replacement bulbs
« on: March 14, 2008, 05:57:05 AM »
Have gone down this exact path for the same reasons myself intending to use the LED replacement on a two-stroke with 'direct' lighting where the AC current delivered rises and falls with engine revs.
Talked it over with the manufacturer who did NOT recommend their use in this situation. He said they were liable to burn out if the current rose too high.
His were intended for use in a circuit where the electricity supplied was fairly stable within fairly tight parameters.
In my case this meant a bridge rectifier to convert the AC to DC so as to charge a battery plus a zener diode to cope with any excess current. All perfectly normal motorcycle practice but not the cheap and primitive circuit as fitted by the maker donkeys years ago.
Not being an electrickery man it took a little while to get my head around the difference between current and voltage but I slowly got there.
Tis the way to go though, isn't it. You get brighter lights from the same old charging system!
Cheers, Bob

978
The Classic Biker Bar / Re: What is Vintage
« on: May 14, 2006, 06:38:29 PM »
To be really pedantic the vintage era is up to 31st December 1930. This was first arrived at by the English Vintage Sports Car Club and has been accepted internationally ever since.
There are many who consider their interest "vintage" and call themselves "vintage" but aren't, The Vintage Japanese Motorcycle Club springs to mind. Not having a go at excellent Japanese bikes, merely the people who thought of the name. There is now Vintage motocross, again no vintage bikes there.
There is a great interest in old vehicles of all sorts and ages but as above, nothing vintage since 31/12/30. Doesn't matter what your mate or the blokes down the pub say.
Cheers, Bob

979
Identify these bikes! / Re: I think its an FB falcon
« on: November 18, 2009, 12:15:12 AM »
Hi again,
UUM identifies the bike as a 1954 Falcon Series II model 67. The engine number prefix for that model is 387A so the number as given is a bit of a mystery. Not to worry, Villiers engines are interchangeable and it is no surprise to find the engine has been changed.
It is not a trials machine no matter what has been done to it. The trials machine of that year had a frame number prefix of UTM and the scrambler equivalent was UTMS. Falcons for overseas used UMSO.
Cheers,


980
Identify these bikes! / Re: I think its an FB falcon
« on: November 16, 2009, 11:11:44 PM »
Francis Barnett frame and engine numbers are readily available. Provide them and we can give you an exact id with no bother.

981
Identify these bikes! / Re: Help id this frame please
« on: November 12, 2009, 11:14:03 PM »
No, not Excelsior. The SK prefix before the frame number isn't anywhere near anything Excelsior used on their plunger frames. Excelsior also had very distinctive rear suspension units unlike those in the photo.

I agree it is very like Excelsior but on close examination - no banana.

Cheers,

982
Identify these bikes! / Re: Help Identify this bike
« on: October 15, 2009, 06:54:15 AM »
Its a 500cc 'Sloper' Ariel from the early 1930's. Hard to find nowadays but one any Ariel fancier would give his eye teeth for.
The Ariel sloper range came and went very quickly and I suspect this was solely because of the dreadful economic conditions of the time. The depths of the Great Depression was not the time to introduce a new range of machines. Like everyone else Ariel had to make and sell only those bikes they were absolutely sure the public would buy. There was no room for error. The new Sqare Four stayed but the sloper range didn't.
Thanks for letting us see such a happy family photo.
Cheers,

983
Identify these bikes! / Re: Villiers Super Sports TT. Excelsior??
« on: October 25, 2009, 11:06:25 PM »
Hi again,
I think we've gone well past the intent of the forum in identifying the little bike.
I'm happy to keep up the correspondence but not bore everyone else to death doing it here. If you'd like to send your email address via the forum message system I'll respond likewise.
Cheers,  

984
Identify these bikes! / Re: Villiers Super Sports TT. Excelsior??
« on: October 24, 2009, 08:47:11 AM »
Hi again,
Exploring what engines Villiers built and for what purpose can get a little involved as they were very flexible and would cheerfully vary the mix to suit the paying customer. Especially if they were buying in substantial numbers. We know the official line but there could be an amazing amount of minor variations. Different size spark plug, spark plug in different positions, different inlet manifolds, variations in the electrics, different lubrication systems and so on, nevertheless, the basics remain the same.
Anyway, the basic line of 172cc 57.15 bore x 67mm stroke sporting engines is as follows,

1, the Sports engine, fixed head and cast iron piston, available 1924-1932. engine number prefix T or TL (Autolube). Villiers created the first of the 196cc engines, the 1E, by overboring this engine to 67mm. Original 172 Sports are hard to find as many were routinely overbored to take a 196cc piston in later life.
 
2, the Super Sports TT, alloy head, alloy piston, available 1926-1932. Engine number prefix BZ. Sorry, I said earlier it first appeared in the 1924 Ultralightweight TT, it was the next years Ultra lightweight race, 1925 that it first appeared.

3 the Brooklands, larger alloy head plus alloy piston and other assorted internal goodies.  Available 1925-34, engine prefix Y. Sold as a racing engine only and Villiers advised it was not suitable for use on the road. I've never managed to get my hands on one of these, only seen pictures.

Then, years later in 1929 Villiers produced the 196 Super Sports and depending on what you are reading it can be plain Super Sports or Super Sports TT. Don't ask. The 196 version ran from 1929 to 1940 when Hitler stopped play.

As you earlier inferred, one can really mix'n'match the various Villiers parts. Currently I am erecting a petroil lubricated 172 Super Sports TT using a MkXIIC bottom end and a Supers Sports top half. This is for my second Excelsior, a 1929 Chequerboard.
Cheers,

985
Identify these bikes! / Re: Villiers Super Sports TT. Excelsior??
« on: October 24, 2009, 02:07:11 AM »
Hi again,
Yes, they are pressed steel forks and Excelsior first used them in 1930. Pressed steel forks were used more and more on British lightweights throughout the 30's and 40's finally fading out in the early 50's. They were used far more than you expect although this early style with the cutouts making them superficially similar to the tubular style didn't last long.
Viliers made both a 175cc Super Sports TT engine and a 196cc Super Sports TT engine also so both would have the same markings on the rear of the barrell. They are near identical in performance. The 175 version first appeared in 1924 and was raced in the UltraLightweight TT of that year and the 196 came along a ferw years later. I've never quite worked out why Villiers bothered with the 196 Super Sports version but suspect it relates to the German market as do the other 196 Villiers engines of the day. The up to 200 cc class was very popular in Germany back then as apparently motorcycles under 200cc didn't pay any road tax.  
Whatever the reason, the difference in performance between the two capacities is minuscule.
I'm not surprised your father got the frame number wrong. It's a common error and given the factory stamps the frame in a hard to find spot, then paints over it plus some later owner has applied even more paint over it, it is very easy to get it wrong.
As for collectibility/ desirability all I can say is that mine draws a crowd in whatever event I ride it in and someone is always taking a photograph of it. They do make a nice change from the endless stream of Triumph, BSA and Norton (sorry).
As for rarity, I live in Australia and since getting my own Excelsior I'm surprised at how many other owners I've met up with although most bikes are unrestored and in the same condition as yours.
Cheers,

986
Identify these bikes! / Re: Villiers Super Sports TT. Excelsior??
« on: October 23, 2009, 11:36:11 PM »
You certainly have an Excelsior and it is largely correct, there only being those minor differences that happen to any bike that has been in use for 80 years.
It would appear to be a Model 4 catalogued only in 1930 and 1931 with the 196 Super Sports engine.
I think you have the frame number wrong as it is unlike any Excelsior frame number I've seen. Basically, it should have an 'A' prefix for 1930 and a 'B' prefix for 1931. I would have another careful look as the difference is important if you want to enter proper vintage events like the Banbury Run.
They are a sweetie of a bike that well reflect Excelsiors sporting prowess at the time. Excelsior was a major player in the lightweight class at the time and it shows in how all their bikes handle.
You can buy copies of the 1931 & 32 catalogues from BMS which will show you exactly what you have.
As you may gather, I have one myself.
Cheers,

987
Identify these bikes! / Re: Villiers Mark V1-C
« on: October 16, 2009, 06:30:15 AM »
Hi Nigel,
I don't know that anyone has ever bothered to list all the manufacturers who offered a bike powered by a 147cc Villiers. If they did it would run to a couple of dozen at least. It's a bit like asking how many different 50cc models have Honda made. Only a real anorak would know.
You have to remember this engine was fitted to bikes from 1922 to 1932 when Villiers brought out their new 148cc engine to replace it.
Names range from the well known like Francis-Barnett to some remarkably obscure stuff like the Carfield and the Ray that are long forgotten.
Be very careful with old two-strokes or you'll get sucked in like I am. They aren't fast, they aren't particularly comfortable, they don't stop particularly well but the fun factor is enormous. You'll find hill climbing is an exciting sport and you get a big thrill if ever you manage to overtake anything. I love'em.
Cheers,

988
Identify these bikes! / Re: Villiers Mark V1-C
« on: October 14, 2009, 05:20:58 AM »
This is interesting. Justin was spot on in everything he wrote and this will be an absolute first, a prewar Villiers engine with no prefix to the engine number.
Can I ask,
a) What information has been cast into the back of the cylinder on the transfer port, and
b) What diameter is the inlet manifold where the carburettor clips on?

Last thing, most of these engines were fitted with a decompression valve regardless of what it was originally fitted too. I've only ever seen it deleted on some of these engines fitted to very cheap ATCO mowers. Most mowers and other non motorcycle applications still had them fitted to assist starting and to stop the wee beasties.
These are marvellous wee engines. I've done many miles on a 2 speed Excelsior powered by one. I never knew I could have so much fun riding such a tiny little bike. It completely won me over.
Cheers,

989
Identify these bikes! / Re: What year is this Excelsior
« on: October 05, 2009, 07:40:35 AM »
I shouldn't write answers after just getting off the plane. The brain  turns to mush.
I have now woken up a bit and have hunted out some obscure Excelsior stuff I have and can now say that Excelsior used the letters DS as their 1950 frame number prefix. Is the OS/3808A really DS/3808A? They added a W in 1951 to WDS so as you describe a two figure prefix only it seems you have a 1950 model.
Also, just to stir the pot a little, the engine number prefix used on 10D powered Excelsiors exported to my home state of Victoria in 1950 was 932, the same prefix as used by OEC. How come OEC and Excelsior shared the same prefix I don't know. There could be many simple commercial explanations. As OEC were quite small time compared to Excelsior it could be something as simple as Excelsior just onselling some of their engines to OEC particularly as Excelsior had just started to manufacture their own 148cc engine for the same bike. Probably Excelsior had high hopes of their engine being more popular than the Villiers so they didn't need all the 10D engines they had bought. Who knows after all this time.
Whatever the story, back in the '50's the Victorian State Police regarded engines with a 932 prefix as Excelsior.
Cheers, jet lag joe.

990
Identify these bikes! / Re: What year is this Excelsior
« on: October 04, 2009, 11:51:46 PM »
Well, back from holidays and another Villiers question to answer. JustinF has given you the basic info all I can do is clarify things a little more. Little is known of exact Excelsior frame and engine numbers up to 1954 or thereabouts. possibly the VMCC marque specialist could tell you but its really not a great issue as like most British firms of the day Excelsior sold the same basic bike but installed either their own or Villiers engines of different capacities and gave it a different model name. In its day your bike was sold with the 122cc 10D Villiers engine, Excelsiors own 148cc engine or the 197cc 6E Villiers fitted. The only other difference lay in the quality of electric lighting fitted. The cheap model had direct lighting (brightened and dimmed as engine revs rose and fell) or rectified lighting with a battery that ensured both a consistent lighting level plus you could fit a stop light on the brakes.
As far as the engine number is concerned don't read too much into the fact that it has a 10D engine originally fitted to another make of bike.  Old Villiers stuff was so cheap for so many years that it was cheaper to replace an engine with another second hand engine from the wreckers rather than spend good money on rebuilding a worn out one. For that matter even if you went to a dealers and had a reconditioned exchange engine fitted there was no guarantee your replacement would have a appropriate engine number for your make of bike. Broadly speaking all 10D engines are the same, it doesn't matter what make of bike it was fitted in. A 10D engine is a 10D engine, the make of bike is pretty irrelevant.
Anyway, your bike looks very original except for the paint job of course, and should give you lots of fun.
You can get copies of all the necessary technical material, manuals, transfers, catalogues, etc from the english Vintage Motor Cycle Club. They have a website www.vmcc.net and are very helpful.
Cheers,

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